Hope that defensive performance was just a bad fluke. We’ll see which version shows up against Nebraska and more importantly Penn State. Trying to say optimistic but it’s put up or shut up time.
If you’re lucky enough to be a Buckeye you’re lucky enough.
Nebraska doesn't have a very good offense (83rd in SP+), I'm not sure we will learn very much about the defense from that game. The Huskers D is legit, it will be similar to playing Iowa.
Penn State is a different test, but I don't think they have the playmakers on the outside to threaten the Buckeyes D the way Oregon did (they seem to rely on TE1 + RB1 &RB2). There are probably only a few teams in college football that can, Oregon being one of them, plus Texas, Alabama, Miami, maybe Georgia?
We need to account for Tyler Warren on every play (maybe Downs). Dude had 17 catches against USC (I know not a good D but still). That's their bread and butter...
I agree 100% with your analysis pancake I think Penn st has a little better defense than Oregon but their offense isn’t comparable they just don’t have playmakers on the outside and don’t make big plays
I am very conflicted about saying how bad the defense is. Did not look good to our eyes but then I looked back at a game that had the same amount of weight to it, stars on both teams and on both sides of the ball, supposedly with top offenses and defenses.
Not going to get into subjective perspectives of are they really good or not. Talking about the Alabama Georgia game. In that game both teams gave up over five hundred yards to the opposing offense. Both teams gave up big plays. Both teams did most of their damage in the air. Georgia had no sacks but 7 TFLs. Bama had 3 sacks, 6 TFLs. In our game we had no sacks and only 2 TFLs but Oregon only had 1 sack and 3 TFLs.
The other big difference between the games is turnovers. Georgia had 3 interceptions plus lost one fumble and fumbled two other times but recovered them. Bama threw one INT and fumbled once but didn't lose it.
Our eyes and hearts are saying "shit, this defense looks like crap" but I am not completely buying into that narrative. Oregon is a damn good team. Yes, we have things to fix. But when you look at other games where two top teams are playing each other far more often than not you get games like ours and what Georgia and Bama played.
Imagine what the Georgia fans were thinking when they were down 28-0. We weren't going through that at all. Say what you will about Day and the other coaches but the one thing that we aren't is ever out of a game. We just have to find our way over the hump.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
That was some good analysis. You didn’t just focus on OSU but also how other top level games have played out. You could’ve just knee jerk reacted but looked at the big picture. More of that please!
I think the biggest issue is expectations, which are always outsized where OSU is involved but even more this season given how many defensive players eschewed the NFL draft and how highly rated they were (especially the defensive ends) coming out of HS. Jack and JTT should both be game wreckers. Neither have quite reached that territory in their careers save for JTT during THAT PSU game. Jack has been very good on balance late last season and in this one pre-Oregon. They should absolutely dominate subpar O-lines and get their fair share of highlights against elite ones. Word is they have the juice, the only question is will the defensive coaches figure out how best to employ them to create consistent pressure or will they continue to be a non-factor in talent equated games. All I know is I would pay good money to bring back Nick Bosa for his lost year of eligibility...
I know the Oregon game sucked, but I wouldn’t give the DE’s a C+, regardless of expectations. Oregon has some stud OT’s-might be the best they’ll face all season.
Burke had an awful game and the defense obviously has room to grow, but I doubt we see a performance that bad the rest of the season. Now, I will say that if we face Oregon again specifically, I hope the staff will consider putting in a faster corner to replace Burke, at least part of the time. He just doesn’t appear to have the foot speed to keep up with Tez or Stewart. Maybe Mathews or CSH does.
Maybe I’m just optimistic, but I expect OSU’s d to bounce back and look very good the rest of the way. The talent and experience is there and you can say what you want about Knowles, but he understands football and has shown a willingness to adjust things that aren’t working.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I'm sure our coaches are and will be well aware of where he lines up and have a rb or team to assist. Or they will just run the ball at him and take him out of the game. Ole ole.
Knowles has been a defense coordinator for three years and a lot of these guys have been here for three years. I don’t think there’s room to grow. I just think he’s a so so defensive coordinator and some overrated players. When you watch some of these film breakdowns by ex scouts and excoaches, the offensive coordinator on Oregon owned Jim Knowles .
And the writers on the site they have a job but they need access so they’re going to tread lightly in terms of grades as they are around the team every day. True journalism doesn’t really exist in abundance anymore.
Upvoted - I can't disagree on any one point. However, I will add to your statement. Knowles was a DC long before he came here and he had success with less talent. Which begs the question, Is it player overvalue or a coaching subordinate staff issue?
A good general always makes you search for his weaknesses. - Woody Hayes
Knowles inherited sky high expectations and a mess from Coombs. Statistically, significant improvement was made. Last season, we had a top 5 defense. The TTUN game was frustrating but if we are honest they were a pretty dang good team that was stout on both sides of the ball and McCord’s 2 interceptions did us no favors. Nobody talks about this but the Cotton Bowl was one of the best OSU defensive performances in Day’s tenure.
I’m not suggesting that the performance against Oregon was acceptable, but fans also need to have realistic expectations for what will happen when they face great offenses. Georgia gave up 41 when they played us and it wasn’t because Smart and their DC are clueless. The days of shutting down good offenses are over. Thankfully for this OSU team, we have the offensive firepower to keep up, as was shown last weekend. Fingers crossed the D can improve and that the loss of Simmons won’t prove too costly to prevent the team from accomplishing its goals, beating TTUN being first and foremost.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Sorry, STL, I don’t share your optimism. We have guys on defense that came back (so they are older than must college players), and we still can’t impose our will in crucial situations like Michigan did in the playoffs with their older team.
I think Day whiffed on Knowles and Johnson is not getting the best out of an older Dline.
Posted this last year, going so far as to suggest it might very well be time to move on from LJ, and I was down-voted to Siberia. I still hold on to that opinion, and I'll add that Knowles, although improving things overall, may need to join him or move on to a better fit elsewhere. I watched the Texas-Alabama game last year, and Texas, with three DL, beat up on the Alabama OL
Knowles usually does pretty well against lesser opponents when he’s got the talent gap. He will stuff the stat sheet in these games. The D usually doesn’t perform well when the talent is close to equal. He’s a liability as a recruiter as well and over priced. I would just like to move on.
The counter argument of course is that no defense is gonna perform as well against an elite offense as a mediocre or bad one. I’m not saying Knowles is or isn’t the right guy, but in today’s game no defense is gonna shut down a great offense
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Yes I get it becomes harder with better teams. The point is his defensive stats come mainly from playing teams with inferior talent. Even with that, sacks, turnovers, and pressures have been minimal. The Jack position was a fairy take. His recruiting is non-existent, He has yet to stop a Mich drive in the 2nd half, not a single one. He doesn’t seem to have a working relationship with his defensive line coach. Is this all you get for 2.2 million?
And the writers on the site they have a job but they need access so they’re going to tread lightly in terms of grades as they are around the team every day. True journalism doesn’t really exist in abundance anymore.
Their defense was nowhere close to as good as ours the first five games and don’t have quite the talent and expectations ours did so the comparison isn’t relevant. We should not be taken apart like that.
You don’t think Oregon is expecting to win the B1G or make the playoff? I think they have the same expectations. But that’s not the question I asked. How would you grade their defense? I see 2 similar defenses and one team won. It’s ok to give OSU a C minus but what’s the grade for Oregon is my question?
Who cares though? Why are you so worried about their grade? With our expectations the defense performed badly and needs to be much better. They at least stopped us from getting a FG on that last drive even if they were partially assisted by the refs. Our defense has consistently not been able to get stops in the 4th quarter of big games the last few seasons it’s a huge problem.
I care. Did we lose to a great defense? An average defense? World class defense? I know the thinking on the OSU defense so I was curious how those same fans would grade the Oregon defense. Would a FG for OSU change any narrative? Yes. Should it? No I don’t think so. Both defenses had moments of really good play with moments of the other team can’t be stopped. BOTH did. I’m curious if we would grade them equally or very different.
They did get stops in the 2nd half and when it mattered. We were never more than 1 score from winning the entire game. Kinda like the year when we should've beat Georgia and won a championship. Offense finishes the game and we're not over analyzing this defense. Yes it wasn't pretty and one of the best offenses ran up some points and yards. This happens in college football to even the best defenses.
Exactly. People are discounting what Oregon has built on offense. They got the #1 QB in the portal during the offseason and may have the second best receiver group in the country. The scores of Oregon’s first two games this season had many people discounting how good Oregon is on offense. In the preseason, many fans and experts picked Oregon to win this game and Ohio State to win the rematch on a neutral field.
No, but there’s a pattern going on here since Jim knowles has been the defensive coordinator. When he plays match up games, the other teams don’t punt in the fourth quarter cause his defense is not good enough to make stops.
Odd that it happens in the 4th quarter. It’s almost of if the defense is gassed from running all over the field because of a lack of pressure on QBs. There is a common trend each season under Knowles, a lack of QB pressure by the front 7, especially the line. As mentioned in past articles and forums by fans and some analysts, there appears to be a discrepancy between what Knowles did at other programs with his scheme and his tenure at Ohio State. There are reports that Coach LJ and Knowles have a difference of opinion on how to employ the d-line. The simple answer could be that the difference in coaching philosophy between LJ & Knowles is the root of the problem.
Our best DT is worn out in the 4th quarter and on the bench on red zone short yardage defense because of lack of rotation and/or mistakes in or lack of recruiting. Playing defense line is far different than OL when it comes to fatigue. At DT playing against good teams, the DTs will often face 650+lbs on double teams and/or co-op blocks. Those DTs are far different in the 4th quarter than earlier in the game without rotation.
I understand that. Sorry if my response came off as snarky. My frustration stems from the fact that few seem to be giving the defense credit for anything good they’ve done this season (including in the Oregon game itself).
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
We're good. I think everyone at this point is just totally unsure of what we really have with this D. Just gonna have to sit back and see how it plays out, I guess. I'm just hoping for the best!
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
Same, Oldebucke. I think Oregon just played lights out on offense and caught us off guard. Burke also had the worst game of his career. I don’t think it’s a hopeless situation. We’ll know more after the PSU game but I’m cautiously optimistic for now.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
STL Buckeye, what did the defense do well in the Oregon game? Not being sparky, just asking. I legitimately don't recall anything positive aside from a couple of early stops and the 4th quarter stop on 4th and goal where Gabriel missed a wide open WR.
In general, the D was decent against the run. Did get a big stop or two (haven’t rewatched). Let’s put it this way- had Burke been a little better in coverage (ok, a lot better), the outcome is likely different. The D gave up 31, which isn’t great but it’s also not disgraceful when you’re talking about a top 5 opponent on the road with an excellent, experienced QB, NFL receivers and a great OL. They are extremely well-coached too.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I would be interested in how the lack of pressure by the defensive line on Oregon’s QB played a role in the struggles by the corners. I know it sounds like an obvious answer, but the immediate concern by many fans and analysts was directed towards the corners and benching Burke. There was less conversation about the d-line. Oregon somewhat quietly build what might be the second best receiver group in the country during the offseason. It’s extremely difficult in the modern offensive friendly rules game to cover top receivers, especially if the QB can sit back in the pocket. I’m not giving Burke a free pass (no pun intended), he appeared lost at times and his tackling was bad. But, the simple answer might be the d-line is the main problem and the issues with the corners was a byproduct of the lack of QB pressure.
I agree with this. Moving forward, I am more concerned about not being pressured than I am about Burke's cover skills. To put this another way, I think Burke will start on Sundays and I do not think that is the case for JTT & Jack.
A qb needs three things to carve up a defense, a clean pocket where they can stand tall and scan the field as the routes play out, they aren't worrying about pressure, sliding back, right or left to avoid pressure. Clean sight lines to see and throw the ball and then the ability to step into the throw. Against Oregon Gabriel was able to do all three most of the game. WR's that can run double move routes don't happen without time. QB's can't throw accurate deep balls when they can see the field and step up and throw the ball deep with accuracy.
If the front four isn't getting it done you have to bring a fifth or sixth guy to change the pattern. Speed up the decision making process of the qb and the lineman. The lineman were not getting arms up the air, not blocking sight lines, knocking down balls at the line.
Our issues lie solely with coaching. I don't know if it's Knowles, Johnson, or a combination due to whatever their relationship is. The defensive front 7 against Oregon made no sense to me. We had little to no aggression. We have no creativity with the pass rush. I'm still tired of seeing blitzers run straight into the backs of our own guys or into an offensive lineman.
I know. I mean do we ever run stunts/twists or anything like that, which other teams seem to run all the time. Maybe I am just missing it, but I don't see us doing any of that.
This defense will never win a big game. It's not designed to. It's a gimmick defense designed to help the little guys compete with the big boys (okie state vs OU). The reason Oregon got 5 yds a carry and Styles and Simon had more tackles because the RBs for Oregon were already through the line and Styles and Simon were the last hope to prevent an explosive. Of course they got more tackles.
This defense likes to put 5 and 6 in the box. That will never win in a matchup game. I'll run up the middle for 5 all damn day if you're going to leave the box empty.
Horrible defense for what we play against. Just look at ALL the big games since Knowles had arrived in Columbus. Every loss we have is in a matchup game AND they RAN all over us.
If the scheme ain't workin', it's time to change it.
The players seem to show more brotherhood than the staff. The sum of the parts right now is greater than the whole. Get on board or get out of the way. Go Bucks!!
The defense front four need to do something more than just bull rushing. It’s too predictable and a good offensive line can stop it. JT has a great spin move. Why not have him do more of that? He gets in the backfield super fast with the move. Why isn’t our DEs rushing inside? They need to rotate more often. Jackson and Curry are disruptive when in. More pressure and sacks on the QB is needed ! If not then any QB will look like Tom fing Brady if he has all day to throw!If rumors are true about LJ and Knowles different views then they need to get on the same page or we aren’t winning a Natty! Mike Ditka and Bud Ryan hated each other but had one of the best defenses ever in the Bears! They knew to put their differences aside for the betterment of the team!
Burke should have been pulled after the second TD he gave up. You could see he was frustrated and if they would have put Matthews in just for a couple series it may have allowed Burke to get his self together. It frustrates me to no end when DBs give WRs 10-15 yards cushion! Be up on the line and jam the WR! At least he isn’t running by you!
I think the grades are a little low. Yes the Oregon game is the most recent memory, and unfortunately some ugly memories, but I compare our defense to where it was pre-Knowles and think we are better off. I also think if the OPI or clock timing is different in the Oregon game and we had the W, we would be feeling better about everything overall. I am still optimistic this team is going to be in the CFP championship game this year..
Bull rush, spin or swim. That’s all from the front four. There has to be more stunting and twisting, mixed with zone blitzes and other creative ways to take advantage of athleticism. We have done better at creating turnovers. Go Bucks!!
Can we just stop with the lies Eleven Warriors? This defense BEFORE the Oregon game was NOT even in the parking lot of the sadium of best in school history defense. What did you IDOITS just start watching OSU in the last 10 years so you are CLUELESS about OSU defense historically??? The 1973 OSU defense had 4 shut outs in its first 8 games and allowed 20 points for the season in those first 8 games during that 8 game stretch no opponent scored more than 7 point in a game. They played#10 TCUN to a 10-10 tie and went to the rose bowl (something that ate a bo schembechler the rest of his life) and would go on to beat USC and was voted #1.
For the SEASON OSU gave up a total of 53 points... This defense cant even open its mouth about best in school history.
HOW ABOUT THE AUTHORS DO SOME ACTUAL RESERCH before you start pumping sunshine up our behinds!!!
Three MAC teams, MSU and Iowa. Not a single WR anywhere near as good as Tez Johnson and Evan Stewart of Oregon on any of those teams. Those games were knife-dulling.
Iowa does have I-still-can't-believe-he's-not-a-Buckeye TE Luke Lachey.
Ransome missed one of the biggest plays when JT decided to chase the RB and let the QB go Ransome missed him right at the 1st down marker on a BAD Whiff. Downs looks pretty good in run support he for sure wasn't the best DB against Oregon. The LB'rs have played pretty well all year, I would say the best defensive unit. I still think playing Sawyer and JT who are both SDE's together hurts the pass rush Caden Curry gets better pressure than both of them as does Jackson. Plain and simple Knowles got caught in Cover 1 and stayed in it too long. you cannot run the same defense every play when you are playing against a versatile fast offense. You have to slow them down by making them change their play at the LOS. CREATIVITY on defense.
On the defense. The first 3 games were against MAC quality teams. Iowa has a typical terrible offense and Mich State is average at best. Sawyer and JT are overrated and have been for a couple years. Ranson is a liability in the back end. They better let this game go and focus on Nebraska, their QB has played well. The game that concerns me is Penn State (they are due to win) even with James Franklin at the helm and of course Michigan with 3+ losses would love to ruin our season
Before you call Sawyer and JT overrated take a look at the history of defensive lineman not living up to the billing. It's becoming a trend. Highly ranked players flopping and lower ranked recruits not developing.
I realize you can quickly get into the weeds on how to grade the defense, but through 6 games there have only been a handful of really meaningful plays. These scores would be a lot worse if they were graded on when it counted. Burke got roasted, Ransom time after time ( when it matters) doesn't deliver.
On top of that. I don't know how you grade the defense when the head coach appears to be to passive to lay down the law on that side of the ball.
When the defense needed to step up vs. Oregon, it failed the test. Once again the offense found itself trying to make up for the defense's poor showing. The rest of the schedule will show us if the Oregon game was an aberration defensively, or whether the Buckeye D just isn't that good against good teams......and there are some good teams left to play. OSU is playing the toughest B10 schedule.
What bothers me more than anything is the almost complete lack of a pass rush, and against the Ducks Dillon Gabriel had a clean pocket virtually the whole game, and the Buckeye D paid the price for it.
Our top DT is not in the game when Oregon is in short yardage situations because he is worn out because of no rotation because of a coaching mistake or poor recruiting...one or the other. Of course the DL will look good in the first 3 games.
I sometimes wonder if Pantoni and the recruiting staff look too much into stars vs. anything else. We just have too many highly rated players all over the field but they play with MAC level ability when it matters most.
I disagree with the grading of the cornerbacks , defensive ends and linebackers. Linebackers have been non existent this season and deserve a C grade. They never seem in the picture on any of the tackles and they have a hard time covering anyone in space. Buckeyes playing against a good tight end scare me these linebackers. Cornerbacks deserve a D grade and it showed versus good wide receivers. These guys got blown off the ball constantly. They never turn around to get the ball. Denzel Burnt Burke is one of the most overrated Buckeyes players in the last thirty years. His covering skills were about as good as Ryan Hamby's hands catching a football. Defensive ends let the fans down this year their performance is a B to B- grade.
Urban said recently in Match up games you must win the trenches. Day doesn’t believe that. His recurring shows it. We will ALWAYS struggle in match up games with that mentality
I understand that these grades need to take into account all games and not just the bad ones, or the games against cupcake competition. That being said, this is Ohio State, which is an elite program that judges itself based on championships and wins in big games. So I think its completely fair to weigh the results in those bigger games more heavily. That doesn't mean we discount the good things that were done against Iowa or Western Michigan, but those games aren't the measuring stick for the Buckeyes.
Regarding the safeties, my concern is that Ransom and Downs might be better being in the box safeties. I don't see either one being a rangy, free safety type to help over the top. I'd mix in McClain and/or Hartford or Bonsu more to see if they can help us with the deep ball.
Regarding the defensive tackles, I don't understand why Hamilton and Williams take so many snaps. I thought Malone played well against Marshall and since then he's disappeared. I'd rotate at least 4 guys at the two DT spots, maybe even 5. Guys have to put their egos aside. Also not sure why Williams is a 3 tech, body-wise he looks like a 1 tech or nose to me. Hamilton body-wise looks more like a 3 tech. I'm guessing Williams thinks he's some great pass rusher, hence him wanting to play at the 3 tech, but outside the one game he had against Tulsa (I think it was Tulsa), I don't see it.
Lining up Tuimololau with all his athleticism in virtually the same spot play after play for going on 4 years now is just one of many things that drives me insane about our Defensive coaching staff. Why not move him around and at least try to get him in mismatches any way you can. Try something different once in awhile. Get creative. What's it gonna hurt at this point?
Our Defensive coaching staffs have failed repeatedly to put the right personnel in the best places to be successful going all the way back to maybe as far as Dantonio as our DC. He might be the last high quality teacher we had on that side of the ball. Ash and Fickell did some good things for a couple years, but the rest the past 20 years have been basically carbon copies of each other with some editions just happening to be a little more worse than the other bad ones. Even under Ash and Fickell we didn't have what I would call a dominant Defense.
It's been forever since we could honestly claim we had a real intimidating championship style Defense that opposing Offenses actually feared even a little.
D line play and d end play is not getting it done as far as pressuring the qb. Knowels and LJ seem to have a big conflict in terms of attacking the offense. Knowels is the coordinator and should be dictating the the whole scheme including the entire d line. There may be too many cooks in the kitchen and Day must get this straight between those two.
Comments Show All Comments
Hope that defensive performance was just a bad fluke. We’ll see which version shows up against Nebraska and more importantly Penn State. Trying to say optimistic but it’s put up or shut up time.
If you’re lucky enough to be a Buckeye you’re lucky enough.
Nebraska doesn't have a very good offense (83rd in SP+), I'm not sure we will learn very much about the defense from that game. The Huskers D is legit, it will be similar to playing Iowa.
Penn State is a different test, but I don't think they have the playmakers on the outside to threaten the Buckeyes D the way Oregon did (they seem to rely on TE1 + RB1 &RB2). There are probably only a few teams in college football that can, Oregon being one of them, plus Texas, Alabama, Miami, maybe Georgia?
PSU has a huge OL and expect our rotationless DL to be hard pressed again.
We need to account for Tyler Warren on every play (maybe Downs). Dude had 17 catches against USC (I know not a good D but still). That's their bread and butter...
Ronny P Buckeye
I agree 100% with your analysis pancake I think Penn st has a little better defense than Oregon but their offense isn’t comparable they just don’t have playmakers on the outside and don’t make big plays
I am very conflicted about saying how bad the defense is. Did not look good to our eyes but then I looked back at a game that had the same amount of weight to it, stars on both teams and on both sides of the ball, supposedly with top offenses and defenses.
Not going to get into subjective perspectives of are they really good or not. Talking about the Alabama Georgia game. In that game both teams gave up over five hundred yards to the opposing offense. Both teams gave up big plays. Both teams did most of their damage in the air. Georgia had no sacks but 7 TFLs. Bama had 3 sacks, 6 TFLs. In our game we had no sacks and only 2 TFLs but Oregon only had 1 sack and 3 TFLs.
The other big difference between the games is turnovers. Georgia had 3 interceptions plus lost one fumble and fumbled two other times but recovered them. Bama threw one INT and fumbled once but didn't lose it.
Our eyes and hearts are saying "shit, this defense looks like crap" but I am not completely buying into that narrative. Oregon is a damn good team. Yes, we have things to fix. But when you look at other games where two top teams are playing each other far more often than not you get games like ours and what Georgia and Bama played.
Imagine what the Georgia fans were thinking when they were down 28-0. We weren't going through that at all. Say what you will about Day and the other coaches but the one thing that we aren't is ever out of a game. We just have to find our way over the hump.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
That was some good analysis. You didn’t just focus on OSU but also how other top level games have played out. You could’ve just knee jerk reacted but looked at the big picture. More of that please!
Well-said and I agree.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I think the biggest issue is expectations, which are always outsized where OSU is involved but even more this season given how many defensive players eschewed the NFL draft and how highly rated they were (especially the defensive ends) coming out of HS. Jack and JTT should both be game wreckers. Neither have quite reached that territory in their careers save for JTT during THAT PSU game. Jack has been very good on balance late last season and in this one pre-Oregon. They should absolutely dominate subpar O-lines and get their fair share of highlights against elite ones. Word is they have the juice, the only question is will the defensive coaches figure out how best to employ them to create consistent pressure or will they continue to be a non-factor in talent equated games. All I know is I would pay good money to bring back Nick Bosa for his lost year of eligibility...
Fortitudine Vincimus
I know the Oregon game sucked, but I wouldn’t give the DE’s a C+, regardless of expectations. Oregon has some stud OT’s-might be the best they’ll face all season.
Burke had an awful game and the defense obviously has room to grow, but I doubt we see a performance that bad the rest of the season. Now, I will say that if we face Oregon again specifically, I hope the staff will consider putting in a faster corner to replace Burke, at least part of the time. He just doesn’t appear to have the foot speed to keep up with Tez or Stewart. Maybe Mathews or CSH does.
Maybe I’m just optimistic, but I expect OSU’s d to bounce back and look very good the rest of the way. The talent and experience is there and you can say what you want about Knowles, but he understands football and has shown a willingness to adjust things that aren’t working.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
If we face them again, let's hope we can find a way to get consistent pressure on the QB. THAT will help Burke and the others the most.
Hard to cover when the QB has as much time to throw as Gabriel had.
A good general always makes you search for his weaknesses. - Woody Hayes
If Oregon's star DE,at 6'6'' 295, is healthy next time, he will line up on our blindside OT, whoever that may be, and Ole, Ole.
I'm sure our coaches are and will be well aware of where he lines up and have a rb or team to assist. Or they will just run the ball at him and take him out of the game. Ole ole.
Knowles has been a defense coordinator for three years and a lot of these guys have been here for three years. I don’t think there’s room to grow. I just think he’s a so so defensive coordinator and some overrated players. When you watch some of these film breakdowns by ex scouts and excoaches, the offensive coordinator on Oregon owned Jim Knowles .
And the writers on the site they have a job but they need access so they’re going to tread lightly in terms of grades as they are around the team every day. True journalism doesn’t really exist in abundance anymore.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
Upvoted - I can't disagree on any one point. However, I will add to your statement. Knowles was a DC long before he came here and he had success with less talent. Which begs the question, Is it player overvalue or a coaching subordinate staff issue?
A good general always makes you search for his weaknesses. - Woody Hayes
According to some official reports and rumors, it’s the latter. Possibly a difference in d-line philosophy between LJ and Knowles.
GeorgiaBuckeye
If seen data that when he was at OK state, in some Match up games, he defenses were flat out awful.
im concerned.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
Knowles inherited sky high expectations and a mess from Coombs. Statistically, significant improvement was made. Last season, we had a top 5 defense. The TTUN game was frustrating but if we are honest they were a pretty dang good team that was stout on both sides of the ball and McCord’s 2 interceptions did us no favors. Nobody talks about this but the Cotton Bowl was one of the best OSU defensive performances in Day’s tenure.
I’m not suggesting that the performance against Oregon was acceptable, but fans also need to have realistic expectations for what will happen when they face great offenses. Georgia gave up 41 when they played us and it wasn’t because Smart and their DC are clueless. The days of shutting down good offenses are over. Thankfully for this OSU team, we have the offensive firepower to keep up, as was shown last weekend. Fingers crossed the D can improve and that the loss of Simmons won’t prove too costly to prevent the team from accomplishing its goals, beating TTUN being first and foremost.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Sorry, STL, I don’t share your optimism. We have guys on defense that came back (so they are older than must college players), and we still can’t impose our will in crucial situations like Michigan did in the playoffs with their older team.
I think Day whiffed on Knowles and Johnson is not getting the best out of an older Dline.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
No need to apologize. You’re entitled to your opinion. Respectful commentary is welcome here.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
“Older guys and seniors coming back” don’t always equal success.
Those who stir the shit pot should have to lick the spoon.
Posted this last year, going so far as to suggest it might very well be time to move on from LJ, and I was down-voted to Siberia. I still hold on to that opinion, and I'll add that Knowles, although improving things overall, may need to join him or move on to a better fit elsewhere. I watched the Texas-Alabama game last year, and Texas, with three DL, beat up on the Alabama OL
OSUAlumInAZ
I am with you STL. We might be proven wrong by the end of the year but I don't see this as being close to a sky is falling scenario.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Knowles usually does pretty well against lesser opponents when he’s got the talent gap. He will stuff the stat sheet in these games. The D usually doesn’t perform well when the talent is close to equal. He’s a liability as a recruiter as well and over priced. I would just like to move on.
tedbomb
The counter argument of course is that no defense is gonna perform as well against an elite offense as a mediocre or bad one. I’m not saying Knowles is or isn’t the right guy, but in today’s game no defense is gonna shut down a great offense
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Yes I get it becomes harder with better teams. The point is his defensive stats come mainly from playing teams with inferior talent. Even with that, sacks, turnovers, and pressures have been minimal. The Jack position was a fairy take. His recruiting is non-existent, He has yet to stop a Mich drive in the 2nd half, not a single one. He doesn’t seem to have a working relationship with his defensive line coach. Is this all you get for 2.2 million?
Fair points and I agree that improvement needs to be seen, especially given his title and pay.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Blake baker-LSU, wink martindale-TCUN and Pete Golding- ol miss are the 3 highest paid DC’s. They have a combined 5 losses. It could be worse
Well said, well said.
How would you grade the Oregon defense that gave up similar numbers?
Their defense was nowhere close to as good as ours the first five games and don’t have quite the talent and expectations ours did so the comparison isn’t relevant. We should not be taken apart like that.
I wish the writers that cover the beat would ask Ryan Day and the defensive coordinator tough questions. Make them answer tough questions.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
You don’t think Oregon is expecting to win the B1G or make the playoff? I think they have the same expectations. But that’s not the question I asked. How would you grade their defense? I see 2 similar defenses and one team won. It’s ok to give OSU a C minus but what’s the grade for Oregon is my question?
I would say, C+ B minus until the fourth quarter. And then when you have to ask your defense, you need to shut them down, I give them an F.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
I’m starting to have concerns too about Lathan Ransom. I think he is solid, but I think on Saturday he reverted back to the Michigan Lathan Ransom.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
Who cares though? Why are you so worried about their grade? With our expectations the defense performed badly and needs to be much better. They at least stopped us from getting a FG on that last drive even if they were partially assisted by the refs. Our defense has consistently not been able to get stops in the 4th quarter of big games the last few seasons it’s a huge problem.
100 percent. how they dominate Akron or Marshall is not relevant other than to jim Knowles to pad stats.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
I care. Did we lose to a great defense? An average defense? World class defense? I know the thinking on the OSU defense so I was curious how those same fans would grade the Oregon defense. Would a FG for OSU change any narrative? Yes. Should it? No I don’t think so. Both defenses had moments of really good play with moments of the other team can’t be stopped. BOTH did. I’m curious if we would grade them equally or very different.
Again I'm more interested in trends. Our 4th quarter defense is atrocious in match up games.
that’s consistent with his OK state defenses.
what was day THINKING when he hired this guy?
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
They did get stops in the 2nd half and when it mattered. We were never more than 1 score from winning the entire game. Kinda like the year when we should've beat Georgia and won a championship. Offense finishes the game and we're not over analyzing this defense. Yes it wasn't pretty and one of the best offenses ran up some points and yards. This happens in college football to even the best defenses.
They were a preseason top 10 defense. They aren’t 23’ USC…they were rated high
Those who stir the shit pot should have to lick the spoon.
C+ to the defensive ends seems awfully generous.
I don't think the 1st 3 games of the season should even be considered in the evaluation. The level of competition was pathetic.
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
The defense almost pitched a shut out against Iowa. Does that not count for anything either?
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Exactly. People are discounting what Oregon has built on offense. They got the #1 QB in the portal during the offseason and may have the second best receiver group in the country. The scores of Oregon’s first two games this season had many people discounting how good Oregon is on offense. In the preseason, many fans and experts picked Oregon to win this game and Ohio State to win the rematch on a neutral field.
GeorgiaBuckeye
No, but there’s a pattern going on here since Jim knowles has been the defensive coordinator. When he plays match up games, the other teams don’t punt in the fourth quarter cause his defense is not good enough to make stops.
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
Odd that it happens in the 4th quarter. It’s almost of if the defense is gassed from running all over the field because of a lack of pressure on QBs. There is a common trend each season under Knowles, a lack of QB pressure by the front 7, especially the line. As mentioned in past articles and forums by fans and some analysts, there appears to be a discrepancy between what Knowles did at other programs with his scheme and his tenure at Ohio State. There are reports that Coach LJ and Knowles have a difference of opinion on how to employ the d-line. The simple answer could be that the difference in coaching philosophy between LJ & Knowles is the root of the problem.
GeorgiaBuckeye
Our best DT is worn out in the 4th quarter and on the bench on red zone short yardage defense because of lack of rotation and/or mistakes in or lack of recruiting. Playing defense line is far different than OL when it comes to fatigue. At DT playing against good teams, the DTs will often face 650+lbs on double teams and/or co-op blocks. Those DTs are far different in the 4th quarter than earlier in the game without rotation.
He’s in horrible shape.
I repeat: " 1st 3 games". Iowa was not one of those.
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
I understand that. Sorry if my response came off as snarky. My frustration stems from the fact that few seem to be giving the defense credit for anything good they’ve done this season (including in the Oregon game itself).
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
We're good. I think everyone at this point is just totally unsure of what we really have with this D. Just gonna have to sit back and see how it plays out, I guess. I'm just hoping for the best!
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
Same, Oldebucke. I think Oregon just played lights out on offense and caught us off guard. Burke also had the worst game of his career. I don’t think it’s a hopeless situation. We’ll know more after the PSU game but I’m cautiously optimistic for now.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
STL Buckeye, what did the defense do well in the Oregon game? Not being sparky, just asking. I legitimately don't recall anything positive aside from a couple of early stops and the 4th quarter stop on 4th and goal where Gabriel missed a wide open WR.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
In general, the D was decent against the run. Did get a big stop or two (haven’t rewatched). Let’s put it this way- had Burke been a little better in coverage (ok, a lot better), the outcome is likely different. The D gave up 31, which isn’t great but it’s also not disgraceful when you’re talking about a top 5 opponent on the road with an excellent, experienced QB, NFL receivers and a great OL. They are extremely well-coached too.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I would be interested in how the lack of pressure by the defensive line on Oregon’s QB played a role in the struggles by the corners. I know it sounds like an obvious answer, but the immediate concern by many fans and analysts was directed towards the corners and benching Burke. There was less conversation about the d-line. Oregon somewhat quietly build what might be the second best receiver group in the country during the offseason. It’s extremely difficult in the modern offensive friendly rules game to cover top receivers, especially if the QB can sit back in the pocket. I’m not giving Burke a free pass (no pun intended), he appeared lost at times and his tackling was bad. But, the simple answer might be the d-line is the main problem and the issues with the corners was a byproduct of the lack of QB pressure.
GeorgiaBuckeye
Completely agree. This is true with average WRs and any decent QB. Give the QB time and he WILL find a receiver.
KY Buckeye
I agree with this. Moving forward, I am more concerned about not being pressured than I am about Burke's cover skills. To put this another way, I think Burke will start on Sundays and I do not think that is the case for JTT & Jack.
A qb needs three things to carve up a defense, a clean pocket where they can stand tall and scan the field as the routes play out, they aren't worrying about pressure, sliding back, right or left to avoid pressure. Clean sight lines to see and throw the ball and then the ability to step into the throw. Against Oregon Gabriel was able to do all three most of the game. WR's that can run double move routes don't happen without time. QB's can't throw accurate deep balls when they can see the field and step up and throw the ball deep with accuracy.
If the front four isn't getting it done you have to bring a fifth or sixth guy to change the pattern. Speed up the decision making process of the qb and the lineman. The lineman were not getting arms up the air, not blocking sight lines, knocking down balls at the line.
Our issues lie solely with coaching. I don't know if it's Knowles, Johnson, or a combination due to whatever their relationship is. The defensive front 7 against Oregon made no sense to me. We had little to no aggression. We have no creativity with the pass rush. I'm still tired of seeing blitzers run straight into the backs of our own guys or into an offensive lineman.
KY Buckeye
I know. I mean do we ever run stunts/twists or anything like that, which other teams seem to run all the time. Maybe I am just missing it, but I don't see us doing any of that.
You forgot a grade. Coach Jim Knowles - F
This defense will never win a big game. It's not designed to. It's a gimmick defense designed to help the little guys compete with the big boys (okie state vs OU). The reason Oregon got 5 yds a carry and Styles and Simon had more tackles because the RBs for Oregon were already through the line and Styles and Simon were the last hope to prevent an explosive. Of course they got more tackles.
This defense likes to put 5 and 6 in the box. That will never win in a matchup game. I'll run up the middle for 5 all damn day if you're going to leave the box empty.
Horrible defense for what we play against. Just look at ALL the big games since Knowles had arrived in Columbus. Every loss we have is in a matchup game AND they RAN all over us.
If the scheme ain't workin', it's time to change it.
The bend don't break stuff only works if you get pressure to the QB. They're leaving an unlimited amount of time for open receivers.
Sawyer and JTT really heated up last year as the season wore on. Hope to see the same going forward.
It WAS a fumble. He took 4 steps.
The players seem to show more brotherhood than the staff. The sum of the parts right now is greater than the whole. Get on board or get out of the way. Go Bucks!!
Knowles and Johnson need to figure this out in a hurry. If not, they both can go.
Same garbage 3 years in a row.
Michigan. lol.
PSA: grayed out comments get read the most. Thanks!
The defense front four need to do something more than just bull rushing. It’s too predictable and a good offensive line can stop it. JT has a great spin move. Why not have him do more of that? He gets in the backfield super fast with the move. Why isn’t our DEs rushing inside? They need to rotate more often. Jackson and Curry are disruptive when in. More pressure and sacks on the QB is needed ! If not then any QB will look like Tom fing Brady if he has all day to throw!If rumors are true about LJ and Knowles different views then they need to get on the same page or we aren’t winning a Natty! Mike Ditka and Bud Ryan hated each other but had one of the best defenses ever in the Bears! They knew to put their differences aside for the betterment of the team!
Burke should have been pulled after the second TD he gave up. You could see he was frustrated and if they would have put Matthews in just for a couple series it may have allowed Burke to get his self together. It frustrates me to no end when DBs give WRs 10-15 yards cushion! Be up on the line and jam the WR! At least he isn’t running by you!
I think the grades are a little low. Yes the Oregon game is the most recent memory, and unfortunately some ugly memories, but I compare our defense to where it was pre-Knowles and think we are better off. I also think if the OPI or clock timing is different in the Oregon game and we had the W, we would be feeling better about everything overall. I am still optimistic this team is going to be in the CFP championship game this year..
RAS1000
Bull rush, spin or swim. That’s all from the front four. There has to be more stunting and twisting, mixed with zone blitzes and other creative ways to take advantage of athleticism. We have done better at creating turnovers. Go Bucks!!
Can we just stop with the lies Eleven Warriors? This defense BEFORE the Oregon game was NOT even in the parking lot of the sadium of best in school history defense. What did you IDOITS just start watching OSU in the last 10 years so you are CLUELESS about OSU defense historically??? The 1973 OSU defense had 4 shut outs in its first 8 games and allowed 20 points for the season in those first 8 games during that 8 game stretch no opponent scored more than 7 point in a game. They played#10 TCUN to a 10-10 tie and went to the rose bowl (something that ate a bo schembechler the rest of his life) and would go on to beat USC and was voted #1.
For the SEASON OSU gave up a total of 53 points... This defense cant even open its mouth about best in school history.
HOW ABOUT THE AUTHORS DO SOME ACTUAL RESERCH before you start pumping sunshine up our behinds!!!
You WIN with people.
WW Hayes
No need to name call. Also, offenses today are a lot better than they were in the 1970’s, so comparing the two is ridiculous.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
You can't be SERIOUS? Are YOU actually comparing a defense from over 50 YEARS AGO to a 2024 defense?
Three MAC teams, MSU and Iowa. Not a single WR anywhere near as good as Tez Johnson and Evan Stewart of Oregon on any of those teams. Those games were knife-dulling.
Iowa does have I-still-can't-believe-he's-not-a-Buckeye TE Luke Lachey.
Ransome missed one of the biggest plays when JT decided to chase the RB and let the QB go Ransome missed him right at the 1st down marker on a BAD Whiff. Downs looks pretty good in run support he for sure wasn't the best DB against Oregon. The LB'rs have played pretty well all year, I would say the best defensive unit. I still think playing Sawyer and JT who are both SDE's together hurts the pass rush Caden Curry gets better pressure than both of them as does Jackson. Plain and simple Knowles got caught in Cover 1 and stayed in it too long. you cannot run the same defense every play when you are playing against a versatile fast offense. You have to slow them down by making them change their play at the LOS. CREATIVITY on defense.
On the defense. The first 3 games were against MAC quality teams. Iowa has a typical terrible offense and Mich State is average at best. Sawyer and JT are overrated and have been for a couple years. Ranson is a liability in the back end. They better let this game go and focus on Nebraska, their QB has played well. The game that concerns me is Penn State (they are due to win) even with James Franklin at the helm and of course Michigan with 3+ losses would love to ruin our season
Before you call Sawyer and JT overrated take a look at the history of defensive lineman not living up to the billing. It's becoming a trend. Highly ranked players flopping and lower ranked recruits not developing.
Fraudbaugh
I realize you can quickly get into the weeds on how to grade the defense, but through 6 games there have only been a handful of really meaningful plays. These scores would be a lot worse if they were graded on when it counted. Burke got roasted, Ransom time after time ( when it matters) doesn't deliver.
On top of that. I don't know how you grade the defense when the head coach appears to be to passive to lay down the law on that side of the ball.
Go Bucks!!!
When the defense needed to step up vs. Oregon, it failed the test. Once again the offense found itself trying to make up for the defense's poor showing. The rest of the schedule will show us if the Oregon game was an aberration defensively, or whether the Buckeye D just isn't that good against good teams......and there are some good teams left to play. OSU is playing the toughest B10 schedule.
What bothers me more than anything is the almost complete lack of a pass rush, and against the Ducks Dillon Gabriel had a clean pocket virtually the whole game, and the Buckeye D paid the price for it.
Our top DT is not in the game when Oregon is in short yardage situations because he is worn out because of no rotation because of a coaching mistake or poor recruiting...one or the other. Of course the DL will look good in the first 3 games.
I sometimes wonder if Pantoni and the recruiting staff look too much into stars vs. anything else. We just have too many highly rated players all over the field but they play with MAC level ability when it matters most.
I disagree with the grading of the cornerbacks , defensive ends and linebackers. Linebackers have been non existent this season and deserve a C grade. They never seem in the picture on any of the tackles and they have a hard time covering anyone in space. Buckeyes playing against a good tight end scare me these linebackers. Cornerbacks deserve a D grade and it showed versus good wide receivers. These guys got blown off the ball constantly. They never turn around to get the ball. Denzel Burnt Burke is one of the most overrated Buckeyes players in the last thirty years. His covering skills were about as good as Ryan Hamby's hands catching a football. Defensive ends let the fans down this year their performance is a B to B- grade.
BuckeyeYankee
Urban said recently in Match up games you must win the trenches. Day doesn’t believe that. His recurring shows it. We will ALWAYS struggle in match up games with that mentality
A fan since the Randy Gradishar days
I understand that these grades need to take into account all games and not just the bad ones, or the games against cupcake competition. That being said, this is Ohio State, which is an elite program that judges itself based on championships and wins in big games. So I think its completely fair to weigh the results in those bigger games more heavily. That doesn't mean we discount the good things that were done against Iowa or Western Michigan, but those games aren't the measuring stick for the Buckeyes.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
Regarding the safeties, my concern is that Ransom and Downs might be better being in the box safeties. I don't see either one being a rangy, free safety type to help over the top. I'd mix in McClain and/or Hartford or Bonsu more to see if they can help us with the deep ball.
Regarding the defensive tackles, I don't understand why Hamilton and Williams take so many snaps. I thought Malone played well against Marshall and since then he's disappeared. I'd rotate at least 4 guys at the two DT spots, maybe even 5. Guys have to put their egos aside. Also not sure why Williams is a 3 tech, body-wise he looks like a 1 tech or nose to me. Hamilton body-wise looks more like a 3 tech. I'm guessing Williams thinks he's some great pass rusher, hence him wanting to play at the 3 tech, but outside the one game he had against Tulsa (I think it was Tulsa), I don't see it.
Lining up Tuimololau with all his athleticism in virtually the same spot play after play for going on 4 years now is just one of many things that drives me insane about our Defensive coaching staff. Why not move him around and at least try to get him in mismatches any way you can. Try something different once in awhile. Get creative. What's it gonna hurt at this point?
Our Defensive coaching staffs have failed repeatedly to put the right personnel in the best places to be successful going all the way back to maybe as far as Dantonio as our DC. He might be the last high quality teacher we had on that side of the ball. Ash and Fickell did some good things for a couple years, but the rest the past 20 years have been basically carbon copies of each other with some editions just happening to be a little more worse than the other bad ones. Even under Ash and Fickell we didn't have what I would call a dominant Defense.
It's been forever since we could honestly claim we had a real intimidating championship style Defense that opposing Offenses actually feared even a little.
~We'll Get Em' Next Year~
Can we please stop calling our line the Rushmen. I haven't seen a pass rush in ages.
OSUAlumInAZ
We have zero pass rush which is leading to our corner backs getting burned. Go to get some pressure.
BL
Giving the Defensive Backs a C+ is too generous.
This defense is the most overrated unit is tOSU history and will inevitably let us down again between now and tCun.
GO BUCKS
D line play and d end play is not getting it done as far as pressuring the qb. Knowels and LJ seem to have a big conflict in terms of attacking the offense. Knowels is the coordinator and should be dictating the the whole scheme including the entire d line. There may be too many cooks in the kitchen and Day must get this straight between those two.