Skull Session: Ohio State Still Ranks Second in SP+, Jim Knowles’ Defenses Have Fourth-Quarter Problems in Big Games and Joel Klatt Says Jeremiah Smith’s OPI Was a “Poor Call”
Unacceptable stat for fourth quarter OFFENSE in big games as well.
Now there's ZERO excuse: Day is an offensive-minded coach, a QB development specialist, and now he has Chip friggin Kelly analyzing & calling plays from up top. ZERO excuse....
What is unacceptable is keeping Burke in the Oregon game and what would be even more unacceptable would be to continue starting him this season. He has been exposed and will continue to be exposed by competent passing teams. It’s truly time to give Jermaine Matthews or Calvin Simpson-Hunt a chance, they could not possibly be exposed more than Burke has been already.
And when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze!
And we'll drink to old Ohio 'til we wobble in our shoes!
Agree! That is shocking and telling. Those are the times when the superstars shine (e.g. Bosas, Chase Young). We just don't have those types of guys right now. Yeah...we don't have first round NFL DEs lol. We were so spoiled hahaha
Agreed on the unacceptable part. Except the author of the stat skipped out on ND 2022, who was ranked #5. Overrated probably? But you can't make that stat and then pick and choose which games count. I believe we got several stops that game in the 4th quarter.
If you don't ROTATE the big uns up front against good teams dead legs take over in the 4th QTR. Surprise, surprise. If you don't recruit enough good big uns so you can't rotate who's fault is that? The Head Coach, the DL Coach or the DC????????? Or combo???
According to Wikipedia of the original members one was born in Alabama, two in Canton, one in Detroit, and one in North Carolina. They formed the band when they were classmates at Canton McKinley High School. They did most of their recordings in the Cleveland area but signed with a Philadelphia group which is what led them to be connected to the Philadelphia sound.
Backstabbers and Love Train - part of the sound track of my high school days.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
The only band I knew for sure that was from Ohio was the Ohio Players, from Dayton. LOL. I love the O' Jays, too. I remember seeing them on Soul Train when I was a kid in the 70s.
It is kind of a so what. Sure, Day and Co will beat up on the Huskers.
It is his modus operandi to beat up on the Huskers and Spartans and trounce the Hawkeyes.
When we have a zero stop rate in the 4th quarter of five games when playing big boy football, there is a problem systemically that beating the weaker teams does not seem to solve.
I will watch, cheer and enjoy a thrashing of Nebraska and still question our ability to get a single 4th quarter stop when it matters.
Go away Joel Klatt. I don’t give a rip what you have to say “pro Ohio State.” You showed your true colors with the cheating scandal. Just another media owned talking head.
Agreed that it shouldn't come down to one call, but it'd be nice to be on the right side of one of these crappy calls once in awhile.
This game came down to turnovers and lack of defensive stops--and a really, really stupid lucky line drive kick giving a short field. OSU may have won the game had the refs not intervened at the end of the game, but there are definitely areas that need cleaned up.
And taking that L may be a good thing long term for this team.
When I was 22, my most difficult decision was whether I should go to class or ask to borrow a classmate’s notes. It certainly wasn’t managing the final nerve-wracking seconds of a nationally televised football game in front of a raucous crowd and 10 million more watching on TV. We like to think this is an experienced team and compared to most college teams, it is but we also seem to forget they’re still 18-23 and the seniors who make NFL rosters next year will most likely be rookie backups. The pressure on these guys to win—$20M roster, “natty or bust!”—was only going to mount as the season progressed. That kind of pressure can force teams to play tight, as if there’s no margin for error and if they make a mistake, panic can set in. There’s something to be said for being humbled and knocked down a peg. They know they’re not invincible. From Day down to the managers and water girls, they’re all going to have to work harder. I hope they’re approaching this loss positively but not naively.
I don’t really like bye weeks, either, but this one has come at a fortuitous moment in terms of being able to regroup, refocus, and work Zen Michalski into the rotation.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Your experiences at 22 wilt in comparison to a multi-year starter at QB's experiences at 22 which wilt in comparison to a 22 year old Ranger Batt squad leader taking men into combat. Suffice to say many 22 year olds are far far beyond where you were in terms of life experience.
Very true... seem to get some weird calls in games over the years, but not so much when the game is on the line.
I think the angle that it shouldn't have been OPI since the ball wasn't in the air is valid. I don't know if there is Illegal Contact or Illegal Use of Hands for an offensive player in that situation, but it seemed like a 5 yard penalty at worst. Would have made sense as a spot foul as well, again about 5 yards.
OPI doesn't care if the ball is in the air. Here's the rule (Rule 7, Article 8).
b. Offensive pass interference is contact by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone that interferes with a Team B player during a legal forward pass play in which the forward pass crosses the neutral zone. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents. It is not offensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-IV, V, X, XV and XVI):
1. When, after the snap, a Team A ineligible player immediately charges and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond the neutral zone and maintains the contact for no more than three yards beyond the neutral zone. (A.R. 7-3-10-II) FR-86 RULE 7 / Snapping and Passing the Ball
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-IX).
3. When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the area where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player in that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.
PENALTY—15 yards from the previous spot [S33].
So regarding OPI, the ball being in the air only matters if they are in the area of the pass and the pass is deemed uncatchable. The offensive player is responsible to avoid contact, so who initiates the contact is important.
In this case, JJ Smith attempts an inside move and the DB slides over and puts his hands on him. The receiver attempted to avoid contact, the defender initiates contact. The contact at this point is legal contact because it was initiated by the defender and the ball was not yet in the air. JJ Smith shrugging him off is not a foul in this case, especially when it was hand to hand contact. Had JJ initiated the contact, it would have been OPI.
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I disagree some with Coach on this point. Sometimes, in high stakes games, between 2 really good teams, it does come down to one or two plays. We’ve seen it, lived through it, and many times, those plays are at the end of the game..
My son was put into a middle school game to kick off, he unintentionally kicked a line drive into the front-line defender.
To the amusement of those within hearing in the stands, as the ball struck the player in the chest, he let out an audible 'OOF!' as he crumpled to the ground. Son's teammates scrambled for the ball and recovered it but first and last time son was assigned kick off duties.
I guess you missed the first drive of the first quarter when Kacmarek didn't catch a ball he was credited with. Terrible officiating goes both ways most of the time.
I agree (and, more importantly, hope) that this loss is soul-cleansing. There are a bunch of things that need cleaned up right now, and this might be that catalyst for that.
On the first drive of the game. Too much is being made of the supposed Oregon interception. They punted on their next drive, then we had the fumble. That wasn't anywhere near as impactful as the screw job from the officials on our last drive.
Oregon had good field position for the whole game. The Buckeyes? Backed up almost all game with a long field in front of them. Another deciding factor.
Enough of this nonsense of the zebras deciding games. When I run for POTUS, the first pillar of my campaign platform will be that every penalty in a football game’s last 2:00 must be reviewed. They may be upheld but at least they’ll need to justify it rather than just keep going as if there’s no accountability.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
That’s a good one. If they can have a universal system for making make nuts and bolts the same size, why not clothes? I’d add a rider that Costco must have changing rooms to try on clothes in the store instead of having to go home and then bring them back if they don’t fit.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Better yet, all clothes are actual measurements for size. I don't want to guess what Large means, I want to know how long the shirt is, and how big around. Why do we only do this with jeans? Even shoes aren't consistent in the US - in many other places, shoe sizes are given in cm.
I will run on the platform of having open mikes on during reviews. No reason to not hear them. Full transparency & disclosure. F this "behind closed doors", "up in the booth", or " under the hood" bullshit.
I think Knowles defensive struggles extend for the entire game when there are high profile opponents, not just the 4th quarter. Oregon had about as many yards in the first half as the defense had been giving up for an entire game. How many consecutive drives last year by the UM offense ended up in points? Wasn't it six?
These aren't isolated incidents. It is a pattern with the defense under Jim Knowles in big games. Yes the officiating wasn't the best. Yes there was a bit of a fluke on a kickoff. Yes there was poor clock management at the end. But when your offense puts up 31, the defense has to stand tall. Jim Knowles defenses never seem to be able to stop anyone when it matters most.
In most jobs, if someone hasn't produced the desired results in 3 years, well...
This was the exact play I thought of when JT tackled the ball-less running back. Did the Duck's black uni's conceal the ball? Would have been nice if a 5th year safety could have helped out...
“…Jim Knowles defenses never seem to be able to stop anyone when it matters most…”
It sure seems to happen against the top teams. I miss the aggressive old days.
Klatt’s right about poor tackling, and not just the missed ones. Are Buckeye defenders taught to go for the legs? Grabbing the ball carrier around the shoulders, as pictured above, seems to often let him grind out more yards downfield.
Did you notice that the Ducks were grabbing legs and spinning/twisting them to upset the Buckeye ball carrier’s balance? Nearly always dropping them on the spot?
When poor tackling is combined with “keeping everything in front“ (too much cushion) against good teams, the results are troubling.
Our honor defend, we'll fight to the end !
"it's not magic, it's fundamentals" that lead to Ohio State's success. - Ryan Day
In most jobs, if someone hasn't produced the desired results in 3 years, well...
You’re generous. For managers and above, I typically allow two years:
6-month “honeymoon” to get acclimated, learn the culture and people, and come up with ideas
6 months to implement them
6 months to gauge impact, team morale client feedback
6 months to take action (PIP, reorg, etc.)
That’s not a hard and fast rule because there can be extenuating circumstances but if you don’t know after two years if they’re making a positive impact and moving the needle in the right direction, they probably never will.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I was hoping this year's D would be more like the one we had in 2019. Or the glorious one we had in 2002. Some much hype with this year's returning D yet here we are again after a matchup game loss. It's a worn out story line and Day needs to stick his head in the D room this week and question/counter everything. If the D shortcomings aren't addressed over the next 2-3 weeks we're going to have serious problems in Happy Valley.
It’s been a long time since the Buckeyes could look to their defense to secure a game for them against a team with a pulse. It’s never will happen with Knowles. And, it’s not just the end of the game defense, it’s the lack of stops throughout the game that are just as problematic.
it’s not just the end of the game defense, it’s the lack of stops throughout the game that are just as problematic.
There have been some stops during the game, but your point is taken.
I would like to see OSU’s defense force more three and outs, which helps with field position.
But then, I’d want to see less cushion given, more pressure on the quarterback, and much better tackling.
I’d also like to see passing routes of seven or more yards, at least past the yard to be gained, and punting on fourth down. Perhaps that would emphasize to the players they have just three downs to get the first down yardage.
I am just Woody and Tressel old school, I suppose.
Our honor defend, we'll fight to the end !
"it's not magic, it's fundamentals" that lead to Ohio State's success. - Ryan Day
It’s hard to put a game on one guy, but Denzel Burke was so bad—watching the replays above—that you pretty much could put it on him. I mean wow. How can you look to build or learn on defense when one particular guy is getting torched and trying to shoulder tackle everyone. He needed help or to be benched for a bit. If you take away the big plays on him alone you take 21 points of the board. I hope he gets it figured out for the rest of the season.
Agreed. I mean, I hope they can all have a good laugh watching film this week. We seem to always soul search after a loss and want to fire half the coaching staff. But my God. He was just so singularly bad. The stop rate in the fourth quarter is concerning, but I think that’s more due to the fact that teams are just really trying hard to get something done late in the game. For pretty much every game this season it’s been the second and third string in the fourth quarter which I think also contributes to that poor stop rate in the fourth quarter. We call that lying with statistics. I think our defense with the exception of the last game has been silver bullet quality. And again, If you take Denzel Burke out of the equation, then they played very well overall. Yes, we want to see sacks, But like Nick Bosa, who had 14 pressures Sunday, you don’t always have to get to the quarterback to affect him. And truly Dylan Gabriel balled out. Nothing you can do about that. And the receivers played very well. Again, nothing you can do about that.
When all 3 TDs and roughly half of the passing yardage gained was against one CB (Burke), can we really say Gabriel and the receivers were “balling out”? Or was Burke just that bad and allowed those stats to happen?
And when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze!
And we'll drink to old Ohio 'til we wobble in our shoes!
Definitely. I feel like Caleb Downs was a bit absent as well. Maybe I was missing all the great things he was doing, but a safety with his skill he would think would be in a better position to help out the struggling Burke. I feel like Malik Hooker would’ve never allowed that to happen for instance. That dude used to come out of nowhere to get an interception or whatever.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
I have been a Jim Knowles fan since his hire. At the very least its hard not to appreciate how much better our defense is from just a few years ago, although the bar was set quite low before he got here. But...he describes his dream defense as one that creates havoc and confusion. Our defense does not even come close to that. We allow opposing offenses to dictate the game when we play above average talented players and coaches. That has to change.
All that talent, but we don’t create confusion and havoc on D; rather, it’s comfort and holes for the other team’s offense. If it’s a staff approach issue, Day has to tell Knowles to run the D he wants and for the position coaches to help their groups make it happen, cohesively. Burke is good, but sometimes even the best need a breather to get their shit together. There is no way Matthews would have been worse. And for phuq sake, run the ball!! Trey was gashing them. Go Bucks!!!
Tried to tell folks about this team in the pre-season, especially with all the unjustified hype about the DL. JTT has had one good game in his career, which is one more than Sawyer. In turn, that makes the secondary leaky, certainly not BIA.
Face it, they're soft. And that comes from the HC.
The softest thing about OSU is the thin skinned fanbase that can’t lose with a little bit of dignity. Top your cap to a great game with a bad ending and move on to the next game because the season is far from over. Nah, we’ll just keep making bad takes to sound tough and knowledgeable about the sport they couldn’t even possibly play at a remotely high level. DV away, I said what I said.
But, in fact, they played better against Oregon than I thought they would. :-) Howard, especially. No secret that I haven't thought much of the guy, and still don't, but he was all there in this game. He was ballin'.
As to the rest of it, I'm not saying anything different now than I said in March.
By "better", do you mean I should ignore what I see as the reality of this team? Afraid I'm not willing to do that.
And Day could indeed change the culture, at some point. That possibility exists; the man is a pretty good coach, after all. Pointing out a fixable flaw doesn't mean I think he should be fired.
Burke played so bad, I though I was watching Gareon Conley a few years ago when he was supposed to be our "best" corner. No reason that Matthews shouldn't have taken his place after getting burned the SECOND time unless NIL contracts/agents are dictating playing time now.
My take on Jeremiah Smith is that someone watched his prior film and noticed a tendency for him to touch the defender. They then coached that DB to flop and force a flag. Their coaches really did their homework and Phil Knight is signing paychecks over there.
Its on Hartline to coach Smith not to keep touching the defender or to be more subtle with it. On one of his touchdowns earlier this season he pushed away the defender with one hand while catching the ball with the other. I thought to myself that if he keeps doing that a ref is going to eventually throw a flag.
People keep saying they shouldn’t have left it to the doubters. It was pretty clear they were methodically working down to a close FG try. Passing at will. Nobody saw the refs coming up with a negative 15 yard play in the final 30 seconds. But they still had a victory in hand in spite of the dodo defense and subpar offense in the 4th quarter. Til a ref inserted himself into the game and came up with the only call that could significantly stall them at the last second. Where have we seen this story before. But no one cares after the fact. They just want the W or “fire everyone!” Lol
Might be time to give Mathews more playing time at DB.
I was trying to think of the last time Ohio State’s defense got a stop when the opponent had a chance at a game-winning drive. The latest I remembered were the 2017 Big Ten Championship Game vs. Wisky and 2017-2018 vs. Penn State. I cannot remember any since 2018, although I might be forgetting some games. Every other game since 2018 has either not come down to needing a stop, or the defense has failed.
Be nice to see the defense force more 3 and outs in these big games.
The offense did enough to win. 31 points should be enough when you have, what, 9 returning starters on D and most with a wealth of experience to hold the opposition below that number. I thought Howard played great despite his few slip ups. He won't be perfect, and we knew beforehand he's not Stroud dropping dimes at will, but he played hard and made several outstanding plays without turning the ball over. My hope is that we see Oregon again in Indy, with Lucas Oil a see of Scarlet, and hang a W on the Ducks. Before that can happen the D has to ball out in talent-equal games and we have to pray no more OL go down.
The defensive philosophy needs to change. Our front 7 a very passive. They are too reactionary and do not attack. When we do actually blitz it seems like they are usually delayed and not off of the snap. Until we decide to try and affect the QB, this is what it will look like. Really hard to imagine us suddenly stopping an offense with a good QB for less than 30 points.
"Everyone has a plan, 'til they get punched in the mouth."
I've felt this way all season, the defense is playing slow, playing to keep things in front of them, cushion, non-physical. I like to see my dbs press guys, use their hands and readjust their routes, I like to see the linebackers flowing to the ball, exploding off blocks and hammering anyone in their area. I like seeing my DL playing with their hands, physically, playing pissed off. Outside of downs, tyliek, igbinonsin, and arvell reese i just haven't seen that "I'm playing fast and wrecking shit type defense." Slow footed, indecisive, and passive. Is it a lack of confidence in what they are doing, overthinking? 2019 defense would hit your ass in the mouth, hard. Its frustrating seeing cayden curry go for 8 snaps being disruptive and not play more.
I will pound you and pound you until you quit - Woody Hayes
We get too conservative in the 4th quarter in big games, afraid to go for the jugular, in my opinion. Doing the same thing over again, little aggression or physicality and expecting different results. Perhaps others see it differently but this is culture and coaching in my mind. No one likes to be punched in the mouth, but in football, you need to punch back, and harder.
Skipping over the D's underwhelming performance, I've been unimpressed so far with the offensive play calling as well. How many rushing yards did we have in the 2nd half, 19? We effectively ran the ball the whole first half & seemingly abandoned it. Getting cute on 3rd & 1's...you have a 6-4'' 240lb QB, get him under center and pushed the pile. Stretch WR screens...still hate that play call, I know it's intended to "stretch" the defense, but it just feels like such a wasted play
Wow, Ohio State has been totally dominated on both sides of the ball in the 4th quarter against those teams. No stops and no turnovers by the defense. The only drive that did not end up in points was a missed fg.
And way too many empty drives by the offense.
The coaches and players need to do some serious soul searching and fix that.
It does seem that the opponents in those games figure out what OSU is doing by the 4th quarter and make adjustments while we don't.
But we sure are awesome in the third quarter against overmatched opponents.
Day made a bad hire bringing in a coach who can't product against elite competition. I don't have any hope in this team accomplishing anything special, because I don't see how this defense improves without major schematic changes.
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We will see how this team responds next Saturday..THAT will show you what kind of leadership we have on this team..that old Urban Meyer E.R.O!
Unacceptable stat for fourth quarter defense in big games.
"Big Play" Knowles is back in fine form.
OH-IO Goodbye Columbus, Living at the Beach
Unacceptable stat for fourth quarter OFFENSE in big games as well.
Now there's ZERO excuse: Day is an offensive-minded coach, a QB development specialist, and now he has Chip friggin Kelly analyzing & calling plays from up top. ZERO excuse....
"Put ya' weight on it"
What is unacceptable is keeping Burke in the Oregon game and what would be even more unacceptable would be to continue starting him this season. He has been exposed and will continue to be exposed by competent passing teams. It’s truly time to give Jermaine Matthews or Calvin Simpson-Hunt a chance, they could not possibly be exposed more than Burke has been already.
And when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze!
And we'll drink to old Ohio 'til we wobble in our shoes!
Ohio, Ohio!
We'll win the game or know the reason why!
Agree! That is shocking and telling. Those are the times when the superstars shine (e.g. Bosas, Chase Young). We just don't have those types of guys right now. Yeah...we don't have first round NFL DEs lol. We were so spoiled hahaha
It's better to burn out than fade away
Agreed on the unacceptable part. Except the author of the stat skipped out on ND 2022, who was ranked #5. Overrated probably? But you can't make that stat and then pick and choose which games count. I believe we got several stops that game in the 4th quarter.
If you don't ROTATE the big uns up front against good teams dead legs take over in the 4th QTR. Surprise, surprise. If you don't recruit enough good big uns so you can't rotate who's fault is that? The Head Coach, the DL Coach or the DC????????? Or combo???
And the offense.
I'm ready to move on - this team will bounce back nicely and hopefully crush the hearts and souls of those corn lovin' huskers.
Ah - the O'jays - from my hometown of Shaker Heights - love it !!
Always try to look for the positive ........... in the midst of a crisis !!
Cheerish every single day
I didn't realize they were from Ohio.
I'm squeamishly optimistic.
The Isley Brothers were from Lincoln Heights in Cincinnati. Their first big hit was “Shout!” of Animal House fame.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
According to Wikipedia of the original members one was born in Alabama, two in Canton, one in Detroit, and one in North Carolina. They formed the band when they were classmates at Canton McKinley High School. They did most of their recordings in the Cleveland area but signed with a Philadelphia group which is what led them to be connected to the Philadelphia sound.
Backstabbers and Love Train - part of the sound track of my high school days.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
The only band I knew for sure that was from Ohio was the Ohio Players, from Dayton. LOL. I love the O' Jays, too. I remember seeing them on Soul Train when I was a kid in the 70s.
I'm squeamishly optimistic.
Ohio is the land of funk.
https://www.google.com/search?q=funk+bands+from+ohio&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&h...
Baaaaaalllerrrr
Apparently, Ohio is the home of funk music and funk defenses.
Eric Carmen and The Raspberries were a Cleveland group as well.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders is from Akron, and Pure Prairie League (Amie) is from Waverly
Leave no doubt
It is kind of a so what. Sure, Day and Co will beat up on the Huskers.
It is his modus operandi to beat up on the Huskers and Spartans and trounce the Hawkeyes.
When we have a zero stop rate in the 4th quarter of five games when playing big boy football, there is a problem systemically that beating the weaker teams does not seem to solve.
I will watch, cheer and enjoy a thrashing of Nebraska and still question our ability to get a single 4th quarter stop when it matters.
I’m an Ohio Players guy, myself. Their O-H-I-O song is on my regular playlist. So good.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
Go away Joel Klatt. I don’t give a rip what you have to say “pro Ohio State.” You showed your true colors with the cheating scandal. Just another media owned talking head.
Don’t care.
Play better defense
Go Bucks.
OSU ALUM
Agreed on Klatt and I am TIRED of bye weeks.
This BYE might have come t an opportune time to get Zen more time to gel with the O-line.
"Put ya' weight on it"
Agreed that it shouldn't come down to one call, but it'd be nice to be on the right side of one of these crappy calls once in awhile.
This game came down to turnovers and lack of defensive stops--and a really, really stupid lucky line drive kick giving a short field. OSU may have won the game had the refs not intervened at the end of the game, but there are definitely areas that need cleaned up.
And taking that L may be a good thing long term for this team.
When I was 22, my most difficult decision was whether I should go to class or ask to borrow a classmate’s notes. It certainly wasn’t managing the final nerve-wracking seconds of a nationally televised football game in front of a raucous crowd and 10 million more watching on TV. We like to think this is an experienced team and compared to most college teams, it is but we also seem to forget they’re still 18-23 and the seniors who make NFL rosters next year will most likely be rookie backups. The pressure on these guys to win—$20M roster, “natty or bust!”—was only going to mount as the season progressed. That kind of pressure can force teams to play tight, as if there’s no margin for error and if they make a mistake, panic can set in. There’s something to be said for being humbled and knocked down a peg. They know they’re not invincible. From Day down to the managers and water girls, they’re all going to have to work harder. I hope they’re approaching this loss positively but not naively.
I don’t really like bye weeks, either, but this one has come at a fortuitous moment in terms of being able to regroup, refocus, and work Zen Michalski into the rotation.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Your experiences at 22 wilt in comparison to a multi-year starter at QB's experiences at 22 which wilt in comparison to a 22 year old Ranger Batt squad leader taking men into combat. Suffice to say many 22 year olds are far far beyond where you were in terms of life experience.
When my old man was 21, he was fighting the Japanese on Iwo Jima. I don’t need your smug ass to remind me of that.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Your father is a legend. Semper Fi.
RLTW!
Very true... seem to get some weird calls in games over the years, but not so much when the game is on the line.
I think the angle that it shouldn't have been OPI since the ball wasn't in the air is valid. I don't know if there is Illegal Contact or Illegal Use of Hands for an offensive player in that situation, but it seemed like a 5 yard penalty at worst. Would have made sense as a spot foul as well, again about 5 yards.
OPI doesn't care if the ball is in the air. Here's the rule (Rule 7, Article 8).
So regarding OPI, the ball being in the air only matters if they are in the area of the pass and the pass is deemed uncatchable. The offensive player is responsible to avoid contact, so who initiates the contact is important.
In this case, JJ Smith attempts an inside move and the DB slides over and puts his hands on him. The receiver attempted to avoid contact, the defender initiates contact. The contact at this point is legal contact because it was initiated by the defender and the ball was not yet in the air. JJ Smith shrugging him off is not a foul in this case, especially when it was hand to hand contact. Had JJ initiated the contact, it would have been OPI.
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I disagree some with Coach on this point. Sometimes, in high stakes games, between 2 really good teams, it does come down to one or two plays. We’ve seen it, lived through it, and many times, those plays are at the end of the game..
UHD55
I had a line drive onside kick happen in high school. In the front five and kick drilled me right in the sternum. Luckily ball went straight
down and I fell on it. Almost knocked the wind out of me. Hurt like hell next couple of days.
Born and bred a Buckeye - Buckeye 'til I die
My son was put into a middle school game to kick off, he unintentionally kicked a line drive into the front-line defender.
To the amusement of those within hearing in the stands, as the ball struck the player in the chest, he let out an audible 'OOF!' as he crumpled to the ground. Son's teammates scrambled for the ball and recovered it but first and last time son was assigned kick off duties.
It was much earlier in the game, but the Buckeyes got a break when what appeared to be an iterception by Oregon was not reviewed.
A bad day on the water beats a good day at work.
I guess you missed the first drive of the first quarter when Kacmarek didn't catch a ball he was credited with. Terrible officiating goes both ways most of the time.
I agree (and, more importantly, hope) that this loss is soul-cleansing. There are a bunch of things that need cleaned up right now, and this might be that catalyst for that.
On the first drive of the game. Too much is being made of the supposed Oregon interception. They punted on their next drive, then we had the fumble. That wasn't anywhere near as impactful as the screw job from the officials on our last drive.
Oregon had good field position for the whole game. The Buckeyes? Backed up almost all game with a long field in front of them. Another deciding factor.
Klatt > Mark May
OH-IO Goodbye Columbus, Living at the Beach
Mr. Grinch > Mark May
Joe Sh*t the Rag man > Mark May
Enough of this nonsense of the zebras deciding games. When I run for POTUS, the first pillar of my campaign platform will be that every penalty in a football game’s last 2:00 must be reviewed. They may be upheld but at least they’ll need to justify it rather than just keep going as if there’s no accountability.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
My pillar platform will be that all clothes are a consistent size across all manufacturers. A large should be the same no matter what brand it is!
MAKE CLOTHES SIZES THE SAME AGAIN!
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
That’s a good one. If they can have a universal system for making make nuts and bolts the same size, why not clothes? I’d add a rider that Costco must have changing rooms to try on clothes in the store instead of having to go home and then bring them back if they don’t fit.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Would you please implement a size limit on yoga pants?!
I bleed Scarlet and Gray
Better yet, all clothes are actual measurements for size. I don't want to guess what Large means, I want to know how long the shirt is, and how big around. Why do we only do this with jeans? Even shoes aren't consistent in the US - in many other places, shoe sizes are given in cm.
One chance is all you need. Jesse Owens
I'm C-Buck, and I approve this message.
I will run on the platform of having open mikes on during reviews. No reason to not hear them. Full transparency & disclosure. F this "behind closed doors", "up in the booth", or " under the hood" bullshit.
Go Bucks!!!
David Peck
I think Knowles defensive struggles extend for the entire game when there are high profile opponents, not just the 4th quarter. Oregon had about as many yards in the first half as the defense had been giving up for an entire game. How many consecutive drives last year by the UM offense ended up in points? Wasn't it six?
These aren't isolated incidents. It is a pattern with the defense under Jim Knowles in big games. Yes the officiating wasn't the best. Yes there was a bit of a fluke on a kickoff. Yes there was poor clock management at the end. But when your offense puts up 31, the defense has to stand tall. Jim Knowles defenses never seem to be able to stop anyone when it matters most.
In most jobs, if someone hasn't produced the desired results in 3 years, well...
“…Jim Knowles defenses never seem to be able to stop anyone when it matters most…”
It sure seems to happen against the top teams. I miss the aggressive old days.
This was the exact play I thought of when JT tackled the ball-less running back. Did the Duck's black uni's conceal the ball? Would have been nice if a 5th year safety could have helped out...
The ball carrier wasn’t going anywhere into the middle of the line. JT had containment, he should have hit Gabriel.
Leave no doubt
Klatt’s right about poor tackling, and not just the missed ones. Are Buckeye defenders taught to go for the legs? Grabbing the ball carrier around the shoulders, as pictured above, seems to often let him grind out more yards downfield.
Did you notice that the Ducks were grabbing legs and spinning/twisting them to upset the Buckeye ball carrier’s balance? Nearly always dropping them on the spot?
When poor tackling is combined with “keeping everything in front“ (too much cushion) against good teams, the results are troubling.
Our honor defend, we'll fight to the end !
"it's not magic, it's fundamentals" that lead to Ohio State's success. - Ryan Day
I agree there’s struggles. That last sentence is a dangerous thread to pull at.
You’re generous. For managers and above, I typically allow two years:
That’s not a hard and fast rule because there can be extenuating circumstances but if you don’t know after two years if they’re making a positive impact and moving the needle in the right direction, they probably never will.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
And if there is a particular employee causing the desired results to not be achieved?
My guess is that they remove that employee from the equation. Until Coach Day does that, don’t expect differing results against talent equated teams.
I remember 1972 vs UM and 1975 vs UM, the DEFENSE won both of those games for us.
I was hoping this year's D would be more like the one we had in 2019. Or the glorious one we had in 2002. Some much hype with this year's returning D yet here we are again after a matchup game loss. It's a worn out story line and Day needs to stick his head in the D room this week and question/counter everything. If the D shortcomings aren't addressed over the next 2-3 weeks we're going to have serious problems in Happy Valley.
Fascinating that neither computer has Oregon in the top 5 yet they put a two loss Ole Miss in it.
Anybody want to go back to letting the computers decide who should be in the playoffs?
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
It’s been a long time since the Buckeyes could look to their defense to secure a game for them against a team with a pulse. It’s never will happen with Knowles. And, it’s not just the end of the game defense, it’s the lack of stops throughout the game that are just as problematic.
There have been some stops during the game, but your point is taken.
I would like to see OSU’s defense force more three and outs, which helps with field position.
But then, I’d want to see less cushion given, more pressure on the quarterback, and much better tackling.
I’d also like to see passing routes of seven or more yards, at least past the yard to be gained, and punting on fourth down. Perhaps that would emphasize to the players they have just three downs to get the first down yardage.
I am just Woody and Tressel old school, I suppose.
Our honor defend, we'll fight to the end !
"it's not magic, it's fundamentals" that lead to Ohio State's success. - Ryan Day
Dave Jakins must be a *ichigan man.
You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever.
Oregon blew their load on this game. Ohio state did not. That’s why we lost. And that’s why we win round 2.
“I am all that is man.” —Thorny
It’s hard to put a game on one guy, but Denzel Burke was so bad—watching the replays above—that you pretty much could put it on him. I mean wow. How can you look to build or learn on defense when one particular guy is getting torched and trying to shoulder tackle everyone. He needed help or to be benched for a bit. If you take away the big plays on him alone you take 21 points of the board. I hope he gets it figured out for the rest of the season.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
It was extremely puzzling why Burke was not benched.
Agreed. I mean, I hope they can all have a good laugh watching film this week. We seem to always soul search after a loss and want to fire half the coaching staff. But my God. He was just so singularly bad. The stop rate in the fourth quarter is concerning, but I think that’s more due to the fact that teams are just really trying hard to get something done late in the game. For pretty much every game this season it’s been the second and third string in the fourth quarter which I think also contributes to that poor stop rate in the fourth quarter. We call that lying with statistics. I think our defense with the exception of the last game has been silver bullet quality. And again, If you take Denzel Burke out of the equation, then they played very well overall. Yes, we want to see sacks, But like Nick Bosa, who had 14 pressures Sunday, you don’t always have to get to the quarterback to affect him. And truly Dylan Gabriel balled out. Nothing you can do about that. And the receivers played very well. Again, nothing you can do about that.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
When all 3 TDs and roughly half of the passing yardage gained was against one CB (Burke), can we really say Gabriel and the receivers were “balling out”? Or was Burke just that bad and allowed those stats to happen?
And when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze!
And we'll drink to old Ohio 'til we wobble in our shoes!
Ohio, Ohio!
We'll win the game or know the reason why!
Definitely. I feel like Caleb Downs was a bit absent as well. Maybe I was missing all the great things he was doing, but a safety with his skill he would think would be in a better position to help out the struggling Burke. I feel like Malik Hooker would’ve never allowed that to happen for instance. That dude used to come out of nowhere to get an interception or whatever.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
You think if they weren't going to pull him out of the game they would have at least moved a safety over to help him out.
His back ups should demand to be played. If the demand isn’t met, welp, you know.
The good ol’ boys in the ESS EEE SEE are gonna be pretty upset when they find out they can’t all schedule UCLA or Purdue.
I just miss the days when we actually had "Silver Bullets".
More like Nerf bullets on Saturday.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
Back in the 90s?
I have been a Jim Knowles fan since his hire. At the very least its hard not to appreciate how much better our defense is from just a few years ago, although the bar was set quite low before he got here. But...he describes his dream defense as one that creates havoc and confusion. Our defense does not even come close to that. We allow opposing offenses to dictate the game when we play above average talented players and coaches. That has to change.
KY Buckeye
There was one move that Coach Day could have made to facilitate that change but he refused to make it.
All that talent, but we don’t create confusion and havoc on D; rather, it’s comfort and holes for the other team’s offense. If it’s a staff approach issue, Day has to tell Knowles to run the D he wants and for the position coaches to help their groups make it happen, cohesively. Burke is good, but sometimes even the best need a breather to get their shit together. There is no way Matthews would have been worse. And for phuq sake, run the ball!! Trey was gashing them. Go Bucks!!!
Tried to tell folks about this team in the pre-season, especially with all the unjustified hype about the DL. JTT has had one good game in his career, which is one more than Sawyer. In turn, that makes the secondary leaky, certainly not BIA.
Face it, they're soft. And that comes from the HC.
The softest thing about OSU is the thin skinned fanbase that can’t lose with a little bit of dignity. Top your cap to a great game with a bad ending and move on to the next game because the season is far from over. Nah, we’ll just keep making bad takes to sound tough and knowledgeable about the sport they couldn’t even possibly play at a remotely high level. DV away, I said what I said.
But, in fact, they played better against Oregon than I thought they would. :-) Howard, especially. No secret that I haven't thought much of the guy, and still don't, but he was all there in this game. He was ballin'.
As to the rest of it, I'm not saying anything different now than I said in March.
You’re quoting TCUN by saying soft. Be better
By "better", do you mean I should ignore what I see as the reality of this team? Afraid I'm not willing to do that.
And Day could indeed change the culture, at some point. That possibility exists; the man is a pretty good coach, after all. Pointing out a fixable flaw doesn't mean I think he should be fired.
Then Point out the flaw. Suggest the fix. DON’T quote cheaters. Sounds simple to me.
Burke played so bad, I though I was watching Gareon Conley a few years ago when he was supposed to be our "best" corner. No reason that Matthews shouldn't have taken his place after getting burned the SECOND time unless NIL contracts/agents are dictating playing time now.
My take on Jeremiah Smith is that someone watched his prior film and noticed a tendency for him to touch the defender. They then coached that DB to flop and force a flag. Their coaches really did their homework and Phil Knight is signing paychecks over there.
JT1.0
Are you thinking about Wade instead of Conley?
Its on Hartline to coach Smith not to keep touching the defender or to be more subtle with it. On one of his touchdowns earlier this season he pushed away the defender with one hand while catching the ball with the other. I thought to myself that if he keeps doing that a ref is going to eventually throw a flag.
People keep saying they shouldn’t have left it to the doubters. It was pretty clear they were methodically working down to a close FG try. Passing at will. Nobody saw the refs coming up with a negative 15 yard play in the final 30 seconds. But they still had a victory in hand in spite of the dodo defense and subpar offense in the 4th quarter. Til a ref inserted himself into the game and came up with the only call that could significantly stall them at the last second. Where have we seen this story before. But no one cares after the fact. They just want the W or “fire everyone!” Lol
Might be time to give Mathews more playing time at DB.
I was trying to think of the last time Ohio State’s defense got a stop when the opponent had a chance at a game-winning drive. The latest I remembered were the 2017 Big Ten Championship Game vs. Wisky and 2017-2018 vs. Penn State. I cannot remember any since 2018, although I might be forgetting some games. Every other game since 2018 has either not come down to needing a stop, or the defense has failed.
Be nice to see the defense force more 3 and outs in these big games.
The offense did enough to win. 31 points should be enough when you have, what, 9 returning starters on D and most with a wealth of experience to hold the opposition below that number. I thought Howard played great despite his few slip ups. He won't be perfect, and we knew beforehand he's not Stroud dropping dimes at will, but he played hard and made several outstanding plays without turning the ball over. My hope is that we see Oregon again in Indy, with Lucas Oil a see of Scarlet, and hang a W on the Ducks. Before that can happen the D has to ball out in talent-equal games and we have to pray no more OL go down.
hey serial dv'r, here you go
Leave no doubt
The defensive philosophy needs to change. Our front 7 a very passive. They are too reactionary and do not attack. When we do actually blitz it seems like they are usually delayed and not off of the snap. Until we decide to try and affect the QB, this is what it will look like. Really hard to imagine us suddenly stopping an offense with a good QB for less than 30 points.
"Everyone has a plan, 'til they get punched in the mouth."
I've felt this way all season, the defense is playing slow, playing to keep things in front of them, cushion, non-physical. I like to see my dbs press guys, use their hands and readjust their routes, I like to see the linebackers flowing to the ball, exploding off blocks and hammering anyone in their area. I like seeing my DL playing with their hands, physically, playing pissed off. Outside of downs, tyliek, igbinonsin, and arvell reese i just haven't seen that "I'm playing fast and wrecking shit type defense." Slow footed, indecisive, and passive. Is it a lack of confidence in what they are doing, overthinking? 2019 defense would hit your ass in the mouth, hard. Its frustrating seeing cayden curry go for 8 snaps being disruptive and not play more.
We get too conservative in the 4th quarter in big games, afraid to go for the jugular, in my opinion. Doing the same thing over again, little aggression or physicality and expecting different results. Perhaps others see it differently but this is culture and coaching in my mind. No one likes to be punched in the mouth, but in football, you need to punch back, and harder.
Knowledge isn't free, you have to pay attention
Skipping over the D's underwhelming performance, I've been unimpressed so far with the offensive play calling as well. How many rushing yards did we have in the 2nd half, 19? We effectively ran the ball the whole first half & seemingly abandoned it. Getting cute on 3rd & 1's...you have a 6-4'' 240lb QB, get him under center and pushed the pile. Stretch WR screens...still hate that play call, I know it's intended to "stretch" the defense, but it just feels like such a wasted play
Wow, Ohio State has been totally dominated on both sides of the ball in the 4th quarter against those teams. No stops and no turnovers by the defense. The only drive that did not end up in points was a missed fg.
And way too many empty drives by the offense.
The coaches and players need to do some serious soul searching and fix that.
It does seem that the opponents in those games figure out what OSU is doing by the 4th quarter and make adjustments while we don't.
But we sure are awesome in the third quarter against overmatched opponents.
Day made a bad hire bringing in a coach who can't product against elite competition. I don't have any hope in this team accomplishing anything special, because I don't see how this defense improves without major schematic changes.