I guess so but it is more exploitation if that is the plan and should not really be encouraged. Does not change much. The PI was the thing that killed the game for OSU more than the 12 men thing. As honestly, OSU was on the 30 or so. At that point it does not help Oregon one way or another to do it, since OSU probably wants another 5 to 10 yards to get in better position and has time to do it.
The OPI, rarely called, particularly when the WR is being pressed and arguably interfered with too (physical defense but if you allow physicality it goes both ways), really was what ended OSU's day there. Was that the play call, Smith's mistake, the refs making a call in a high stake moments is anybody's opinion at this point. But OSU was in the shape to win the game. It was going to be tricky to get back to around the 30 against with a 15 yard penalty with the other team in a prevent or dime anyway with that time left.
And I do not recall but I think the one guy was getting off the field, but anyway. This would be benefiting the defense late in the game if used like this. Clever, sure but usually penalties are not designed like this.
No one was going off the field. They just assumed given the environment the refs would miss it pre-snap, and despite Coach Day YELLING AT THE REFS, they did miss it...
They just put the 12th guy deep which allowed them to play aggressive press coverage on our WRs with no fear of getting torched for the game winner.
It was out of time-out, and kudos to them. They correctly guessed Kelly was going to overload one side of the field, which just made it even easier to defend..
Yet another example of the HORRIFICALLY bad officiating. #1 they should have been flagged. #2 after Ryan pointed that out and no one left the game they should have been a second flag for UNSPORTSMAN LIKE conducty and the time put back on the clock and the ball moved 15 Yards close and time left to run at least 2 possibly quick throws to the endzone
Will Howard slid and Innis called TO with time left on the clock. If you think four more seconds wouldn’t have changed things, you must have trouble tying your shoes.
The thing is Dan Lanning just publicly admitted they did it on purpose because they knew the rule and Day and the staff did not. He knew it was a live ball foul that would start the clock.
1) Day got out coached here because of that.
2) Have to respect the non coach speak answer. Day would've never admitted that out loud.
It would have been a moot point if os had called timeout after the PI, but they lost valuable seconds that can't be replaced when they didn't. It seemed like a lot of seconds ticked off before they got the next play off.
Gaming the system is just another form of cheating... Getting away with it just proves you're smarter than the dumbass refs. Go to the line and cross it. Where have we heard that before?
This. Can’t get mad at Dan Lanning for being wise in a crucial situation. But the more I think about this, they should absolutely change the rule. You shouldn’t have a penalty that benefits the other team…that is just common sense.
"Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wilderness is a necessity..." -John Muir
I thought it was incredibly shrewd even if I didn't like it and believe there needs to be a rule change of some form. There's a rule against in-person scouting of opponents, not (yet) against this action, but there will be.
It is within the rules I have no problem with it... hopefully Day keeps that in his back of his mind and uses it for his advantage in another game with the same circumstances... whether the rule should be changed can be questioned as it provides an unfair advantage IMO but at this point it is in effect as of now...
Refs will 100% be told now if a team is clearly playing with 12 men with no intent to remove the 12th man to call a 15 yard penalty. Especially since this happened in a huge game and not like Northwestern vs Ball State
They will have to change the rule....NFL has it and we need to as well to prevent BS like this. I don't blame him it isn't written like that now but going forward? That said it probably wasn't on purpose but Dan Lanning will never admit that it was.
It's cheating. If they intentionally did it to eat up time, that's unsportsmanlike conduct. Just like the blatant holding example and what Ole Miss and others do by faking injury to rest their defense. The problem is it's hard to know what their intent is at the time.
I'm skeptical of theories that assume other people are evil masterminds exploiting a very specific loophole. Occam's Razor would suggest that things in the last minute are chaotic and a coach thought he needed a sub (basically the inverse of the ND game last year)
It also could backfire if Howard noticed it presnap- he could have just spiked and gotten 5 yards in :01. That would get us closer with essentially no time lost. Seems like kind of a gamble for coaches to hope to get away with it.
The intent shouldn’t matter. If they fucked that up in such a crucial situation and were able to gain such a huge advantage from it, it should be an automatic 15 yard penalty for being able to screw with the clock.
I think they absolutely did it on purpose. 5 yards for 5 seconds basically at that point in the game from where we were on the field is a no brainer..
When I watch the replay, I'm still wondering if Kelly didn't think we had a timeout left. He abandoned the run even when we got into FG range, and he's throwing the ball in a sideline flood package. There's 10 seconds, middle of the field was open all game. It's like he forgot there was a two minute warning and thought we blew through all 3 timeouts..
Play the infield back and trade an out for a run is something done every day in baseball. Baseball serves as the analogy for everything in life. Trading five yards for 40% of the remaining time on the clock is a no brainer. Well done Lanning. Well done indeed.
I'd agree if the one putting too many players in on purpose admitted they did it intentionally but they wont because they he might be admitting to unsportsmanlike conduct. Just like with faking injuries, if it's legal within the rules you don't have a problem admitting to doing it. Playing the infield back is different. Oregon put in an extra fielder.
Just like the intentional kick to our player that bounced off, it was a bit genius. Sandlot football. But intentional time killing through unethical play has no place.
Oregon was very intentional in everything they did in this game, including the onside kick. Dan Lanning's reaction after the kick was telling. As a defensive-minded coach, it would not be surprising if the 12-man call were his brainchild.
Because even if he’s down the official still has to grant the TO and the officials on the field can easily just say they didn’t grant the TO before time expired
Same result if it had been reviewed. Only way the clock stops there and gets overturned if it was a first down, that would have stopped the clock.. it wasn't a first down and he was still up with 1 second on the clock so its a running clock, he started his slide basically under a second and not at zero, no chance you get a TO like that..
His best option at that point would have been to see if Smith could have blocked everyone and tried to run it all the way..
No, the play is technically dead at the start of the slide. Howard started the slide at 2 seconds, and probably Day told ref that he wanted a TO at the end of the play. It's no different than when Saban got an extra second back because the player went OB.
Didn't Kirby get a time out after the ball was snapped? Some explanation from the refs that Kirby was thinking about calling a time out so they had to give it to him.
If a team did that (Playing 40 defenders), the Refs would whistle the play dead so no time would go off the clock. Lanning counted on the dumbass B1G refs not noticing a 12th defender until after the ball was snapped.
"Friendship means little when it's convenient." - Shimazu
This is a rule that I hope is visited in the off-season, but complaining about it now is just sour grapes. The games manship is permitted as the rule exists
Disagree. As set out in the article, it should be unsportsmanlike conduct if Lanning did it intentionally. Purposely violating a rule to gain an advantage is dishonest, not gamesmanship. Just because you get away with it (because it's hard to determine whether it was intentional or accidental) doesn't change that.
Didn’t Bert do this at Wisconsin vs Penn State at the end of the first half once to run time off the clock on repeated kickoff while intentionally committing a penalty?
This rule should be enforced similar as a defensive offside unabated to the QB. Too much of an advantage, play is immediately blown dead. That would save the refs from having to figure out what time to put the clock back too every time this penalty occurs.
exactly, if the ball is caught we get the ball at the spot, no penalty, unfortunately we didn’t catch the ball and time went as normal, but we got 5 FREE yards on an incomplete pass. doesn’t sound to clever to me
I dont often hate, but when I do...I hate _ichigan Wolverines. Stay victorious my friends.
I'm sure it was on purpose and the stupid rule needs changed.. like why not just do it again and run the clock down to 2 seconds or whatever?! Change the stupid rule.
For what it's worth, this tactical concept has been around at least since the days of Buddy Ryan (father of Rex and Rob Ryan, coordinator for the '85 Bears, HC of the Eagles, etc.) He called it the "Polish Goal Line Defense" and it was not only an intentionally deployed tactic, it was literally in his playbook:
He apparently also had a "Polish Punt Team" for use in the same clock/score situation, but for a punting situation and not goal line defense:
In a most unusual formation, designed to prevent a blocked kick or a long runback, Ryan sent 14 men onto the field for a crucial last-minute punt. At the worst, the expected penalty for too many men on the field would set the Eagles back 5 yards but drain precious seconds from the clock.
To the surprise of the Eagles, no flag was forthcoming and the safest punt in NFL history was executed without mishap. Was Ryan sheepish about employing such a questionable tactic? Hardly. When Al Meltzer asked during the taping of Ryan’s weekly television show about the propriety of having 14 men on the field, the coach did note a flaw in the strategy. “There should have been 15,” he snapped.
I know people are saying get over it but this is the third huge game that we are a victim of refs or opponent dirty pool/gamesmenship. So we should complain. If we get a rematch I see us and karma kicking their ass. Ohio against the world is real not just a stupid phrase on a t shirt.
If this article, which is about 14 yrs old, is correct then it should have been a 15 yard illegal participation instead of 5 yard substitution. Maybe this used to be the case and the rule no longer exists, or this old article is just wrong, but if anyone at eleven warriors or anywhere else has any insight, please enlighten.
Obviously the rule needs to be changed and should have been already given how it's handled in the NFL. That is why The Rules Committee needs to careful vet the rules and run through every single scenario in which a rule could be perverted and turned on it's head to reward the team committing the penalty. They know coaching staffs are going to attempt to do these kinds of things so Rules Committee needs to be smarter than them and get ahead of these situations. Obviously this is not the intent of the rule and is an unintended consequence that has to be remedied. It's not in the spirit of fair competition to get rewarded for committing a penalty, especially in a situation where the other team has no real recourse or strategy to combat it. This isn't getting outcoached because there is nothing the team or coaching staff in OSU's position can do in this case, no chess move or strategy they can implement or counter with in that situation to avoid the impact - losing time for minimal yardage gain reward. Yes there are other issues like this I'm sure, but this is what we're discussing now, and yes OSU got outcoached, and yes if they didn't make other mistakes maybe they could have avoided that situation, but all that aside, when a team is in this situation there should not be mechanisms in the rules to just continue to bleed time off the clock and essentially take the ball out of the offense's hands. (And yes it was impactful otherwise Lanning wouldn't have done it. Deliberately putting 12 of his players on the field against 11 of OSU's.) (And of course there are a litany of things that could have been done differently or better up to that point, but in the midst of the game you don't dwell on those things and you try to win the game regardless. Obviously we all would have preferred to avoid that situation altogether but at that point that is where we were & it doesn't negate the fact that the rule needs to be changed. Let the kids/athletes decide it on the field and not turn a football field into a courtroom where coaches become lawyers trying to find technicalities in the rules to gain an unfair advantage instead of letting the game fully play out between the players.) Though with that said, Howard needs to get down a second sooner on the scramble and we take our chances with the field goal attempt wherever we are at that point. I don't fault Howard in that specific situation too much, he knew the time, kid was just trying to get his team and kicker an extra yard or 2 to make it a shorter kick and he saw the extra avaliable yards in front of him and just got a little too greedy based on the time remaining. And the footage shows he's down with a second left but trying to get the TO from the refs at that point was just too close, but just barely. He made some very good tgrows on that drive and did not look rattled to me at all as others have claimed. The moment wasn't too big he just tried to stretch for too much yardage on that last run. I was more frustrated with Howard fumbling the snap on 3rd & 3 leading to punt and good field position for Oregon. (His deep ball arm strength is my main concern for Will but that's perhaps a comment for another post.) Everyone knows Howard's stats for the game so I won't list them, but if you're going to start somewhere start with the D giving up 496 & 32 in 6 less minutes of ToP.
At this point use the bye to try to get some things figured out, get healthy and be ready to try to make the stretch run through the rest of the conference unscathed and take it from there.
Go Bucks.
I listened to Neuheisel's analysis of the last couple minutes of the game. He said that Lanning did this purposely, betting on the refs not choosing to consider it deliberate and assess the 15-yard penalty.
Neuheisel also couldn't believe that we didn't just move the ball via QB sneak a few yards on a couple plays to move it closer and more into the middle of the field, then let the kicker do his job. He did not agree with the throwing play calls because of what can happen, and did happen. Felt Howard was put in a no-win situation.
He probably had the Georgia game in the back of his mind. A 46 yard field goal attempt isn't much different than a 50 yard attempt that was shanked and it was attempting to run instead of pass that left us with a 50 yarder.
NFL caliber kickers are pretty automatic from 55 yards now....if we have NFL caliber players across the field, we should expect our kicker to be able to hit a 55 yarder.
I think after the 5 yard penalty, instead of trying to run a play w/ only 6 seconds left, I would have given the kicker a chance. Prove that he's got an NFL leg. Missouri won a game last year on a 60 yard FG at the end.
By gaming the system/rules, Lanning denied the players an opportunity to settle the game on the field. If Day did this bullshit to win a game, I wouldn't celebrate the win, I'd be ashamed my coach was a little bitch. No integrity for the game.
I would applaud Day for smart time management. Gaming the rulebook is common.Taking a delay of game to back yourself up for a better punt position etc... And as already mentioned. Tressel did stuff like this all the time. If you don't think it's right, change the rulebook about clock management after a penalty.
It's not the 12th man that makes it a 15 yard penalty. The rule on defensive substitutions is that the defense is allowed to have more than 11 men on the field until the ball is snapped in order to account for possible offensive formations, and that it is a live ball penalty if more than 12 remain on the field. It doesn't matter whether all 12 participate in the play, whether it was intentional or not, whether a sub was getting off the field or not. 5 yard penalty from the previous spot, repeat the down.
What makes it a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty is if the referee determines that the defense committed any unfair act (such as an intentional penalty) with the intent to waste time toward the end of the game. This is where the 12th man that subbed in late should have been called for the penalty, and the referee has the discretion to determine if any additional penalty is warranted, such as adding time to the clock, awarding a score, or additional yardage. However, since this is inherently a subjective penalty, there is no mandate that the referee must do this. What many of us are hung up on is that the referee chose not to make a call that is by nature subjective.
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Call it what you want. I understand your frustration. Lanning had a plan, Day did not. Or at least, it was not as good of a plan as Lanning's.
If Day wants to start winning the top five games, then he's going to need a better crunch time plan for offense and defense and start demanding this from his coordinators.
On Oregon's 12 men on the field penalty: “I guess they could put 20 guys on the field if they wanted to, I guess you would spike it so you save that time, then you can get five more yards. ... But there was still an opportunity there. ... You think back on a lot of things, trust me I've gone through every play 1,000 times in my head.”
The sub came on from the far side of the field like 3 seconds before the snap. I doubt Will Howard could have seen it in time, and how could Day have communicated it to Howard at that point without blowing his last time out?
I wouldn't say there is a coaching issue with how we handled the situation, they would have had to anticipate Oregon doing this ahead of time and Howard would have had to know to look for it.
We can argue that the rule needs to be changed to put the time back on the clock when under 2 minutes in the 2nd/4th quarters when there is a live ball penalty where a down is repeated and the penalty yards are assessed from the previous spot. Or make illegal substitution a dead ball penalty that stops play (as it is on the offense). Or fill in the blank on how else to word the rule to make it fair. Or emphasize the use of the unfair act rule in situations like this.
But saying Day failed in this situation is ridiculous.
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Lanning absolutely brought the extra defender onto the field on purpose. Smart move to steal time. Tressel used to steal a little extra time at the end of games by having an offensive lineman jump just before the snap.
Now that college football has a 2 minute warning, they should have end of half/game options. The offense should be given the option of resetting the game clock when the defense commits a penalty. Really easy change that helps protect the integrity of the game.
Yeah for sure, all receivers should be allowed to chuck their defenders two yards before catching the ball. Bet you'd call foul if Oregon did it for a late game completion against os.
Above all else, this was on the defensive game plan, and lack of effective corrective measures. Why did it take so long to put an effective blitz package in. What else could you do when a 6' quarterback has to pass with taller and larger offensive and defensive linemen in front of him. Put someone in his face, try hands. I'm tired of hearing "we got to fix that". out!
Any rule which can be easily manipulated is nothing but stupid. Similar to PI being a 15 yd penalty when the foul stopped a 30 yd play. Spot foul is the clear and obvious solution as in the NFL, allowing teams to extend the clock by running out an extra guy has no rational explanation.
Beilema gamed the system this way when the NCAA added a rule to start the clock on the kick for kick offs. Twice consecutively near the end of the half he had his kick team run intentionally 10 yards offsides which would limit the opportunity for a return and burn the clock for a re-kick with a 5 yard penalty. The next week, instructions were sent out that deliberate attempts to burn the clock by a team intentionally committing a foul would result in a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty.
Lanning gamed the system once and counted on refs not catching on. Probably can't get away with it again.
Each game is its own season. They can do it at least once a game and not be penalized until the Big steps in. You seriously think just because a few os fans say it was intentional the refs will call a penalty every time moving forward? That would penalize every other Big team unfairly, for what could very well be an honest mistake, for the other 17 teams.
After the B1G issued its directive on the intentional kick-off foul no one tried it again. I would guess if the message is sent clearly, then the situation won't arise again.
To another point, is there anyone who doesn't think participating with more than 11 men on the field shouldn't be a 15 yard penalty by default? Not talking about a team having 12 men with one scrambling to get off the field and not participating, but 12 men actively participating in the play. IF PI is a 15 yarder, it seems this foul is at least as egregious.
Reminds me of when the Ravens ran out the clock on the Bengals by committing 10 holding penalties on one play to eat up the last 15 seconds of the game.
i can’t fault somebody for knowing the rules and using them to their advantage.
Oregon coach is a cheating fucking asshole. He needs to be regarded the way we regard the cheating bitch Jim Harbaugh. we will face this motherfucker again, and we will curb stomp his ass. He needs to be fined or suspended. Just like the rest of the officiating crew who took away our time out an opportunity to kick a field goal.. Ohio State needs to respond like the Roman army, that eventually obliterated Carthage and salted the Earth. That is the justice they deserve. Will Howard is a quarterback, genius who was clearly looking at the clock and slid with enough time to use our last time out and should be praised rather than looked at as some kind of idiot. He should be the first quarterback drafted next year if any NFL team has half a brain. He is the next coming of Josh Allen. I would love for the Browns to pick him up.
Why are we leaving it up to refs to decide a game? We should be dominant enough that it doesn't matter...if Judkins doesn't act like a pussy on that one run and let a defender take the ball right out of his hands, Oregon doesn't get an easy early TD and we win.
If Day decides to go for 2 like the analytics say you do when a TD puts you up by 5, so that you have a 7 pt lead, then at worst the game is tied at the end and when the clock runs out we go to OT.
Or if Denzel Burke decides to cover his guy and actually act like a shut down corner, similar to so many Buckeye greats of the past, then the game is a blow out.
I'm tired of the blaming the refs for a loss. Don't let the game be close enough for them to make a decision that could hurt us.
“Gamesmanship”, “Smart”, “Good coaching”. No, none of that. The NFL judged this conduct to be “Unsportsmanlike “. That is the word I prefer to use to describe Dan Lanning.
"You either get better, or worse, you never stay the same." Woody Hayes
The game has changed so much over the years. Maybe it’s the money involved, maybe it’s the world we live in. I just feel like there isn’t accountability anymore. Between tcun, player spitting, and Kirby Smart shoving an opposing player....crickets. Not comparing Kirby to Woody at all but if that shove happened here, cmon...I’m still not over tattoos haha
Sure they did, but is legal. Need a rule change to punish this. 5 yd penalty plus restore game clock to time at snap plus an additional 10 seconds for too many on field in last 2 minutes of each half.
Seems to me we could have just let them score earlier and had minutes to come back down the field and score the last points as well leaving us a victory.
All in all, poor play calling, poor officiating and stupid game plan. Just win it all now.
Tired of the excuses and what ifs. There has been incredibly way too many of those in recent years and we play close games but we by no means can expect a victory in any of these.
People run scams all the time and many hold their head up like they've accomplished something worthwhile. This guy scammed time off the clock to win a game. He also had a player spit on an opposing player. He also works for a university athletic department that is awash in profits from a low-ethics manufacturer that's built an empire using sub-living wage foreign labor.
Officials had the choice for illegal substitution or illegal participation, which is somewhat subjective.
The question I have is if the penalty was during the live play, as explained by the officials, why wasn't the penalty illegal participation. Since illegal participation has the clock started at the snap and illegal substitution has the clock started at the official's ready this is a huge difference. Let alone the penalty yardage.
ARTICLE 3. a. Team A may not break the huddle with more than 11 players nor keep more than 11 players in the huddle or in a formation for more than three seconds. Officials shall stop the action whether or not the ball has been snapped.
PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. Five yards from the succeeding spot. [S22]
b. Team B is allowed to briefly retain more than 11 players on the field to anticipate the offensive formation, but it may not have more than 11 players on the field when the ball is snapped. The infraction is treated as a live-ball foul (A.R. 3-5-3-I-VII).
PENALTY—Live-ball foul. Five yards at the previous spot. [S22]
As much as we all hate it - defensive 12 men on the field is a live ball foul and was therefore called correctly.
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There’s a part of the rule that allows the official to make it UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT. They could have but didn’t. That’s what the change will be during the season. The green light to call it if they believe it to be the case. Won’t happen again this season tho.
c An obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules occurs during
the game This includes substitutes, coaches or any other persons subject to
the rules, other than a player or official, interfering in any way with the ball
or a player while the ball is in play (AR 4-2-1-II, 9-2-3-I and 9-2-3-IV)
PENALTY— Unsportsmanlike conduct. The referee may take any action
they consider equitable, which includes directing that the
down be repeated, including assessing a 15-yard penalty,
awarding a score, or suspending or forfeiting the game [S27].
Winter meeting with all Colleges...Change the FUCK'N RULE...call it the Buckeye Rule...time to stop beating the damn horse...this is still Great Team...we will win the "Natty "...wake up call...Go Bucks
So this just means the rule will be changed to an automatic 15 yard penalty with the time put back on the clock so the ref doesn't have to judge intent. Of course, this also means, in accordance with long standing tradition, that OSU will have 12 men on the field without any intent to deceive during the playoffs and will be hit with the back breaking penalty at the most critical time.
So you put 12 in to keep up a big play, that penalty put them in long FG range from none. Also, the play they ran only took 4 seconds, so with 6 left and a timeout, then should have run another play for about 5 yards making it 48 yard FG attempt so for the most part that 12 man plan should have given them 10 yards. Who knew that after a timeout and 5 yards and knowing they had a timeout to use the whole field to gain yards, they would run their final play. Was there and still cannot believe it.
It’s being reported the NCAA is actually looking to enact change during the season. They can’t completely change the wording of the rule but I guess they will possibly instruct the officials to look at it closer and use their judgement on if it’s “by accident” or on purpose, which is a different penalty.
The "kick the ball into a up man" on an onsides kick is clever enough.
The "intentional penalty exploitation of a loophole" is cheating. It's gaming the system. It's crap.
I would not be proud of our team if we exploited a loophole. It IS like what Michigan does.
So I hate Lanning, and while Oregon is not worthy of Clemson or Michigan hate, they're now worthy of disgust. So I can't wait to pound their faces later.
Many of us sounds desperate on here. We need to take our L. Oregon played a better game and made less mistakes than we did. Had we executed better, we would have been victorious. We lost the turnover battle, the penalty battle and field position battle. We can control most of that. We did not. I would have loved for the best case scenario to actually have happened but it didn't. Accept this like we had to accept the Non-targeting call on Harrison. Move on as a fan. If the team holds on like we do, this would be catastrophic.
Coach Day, apparently the Oregon coach knows and understands the entire rule book. Perhaps you need to take the Rule book home with you and Actually read it. Be aware so these types of situations don't happen any more.
Learn the actual rules so you can do your job.
Many are suggesting Oregon cheated because they know the rules. Somebody should be embarrassed.
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I guess so but it is more exploitation if that is the plan and should not really be encouraged. Does not change much. The PI was the thing that killed the game for OSU more than the 12 men thing. As honestly, OSU was on the 30 or so. At that point it does not help Oregon one way or another to do it, since OSU probably wants another 5 to 10 yards to get in better position and has time to do it.
The OPI, rarely called, particularly when the WR is being pressed and arguably interfered with too (physical defense but if you allow physicality it goes both ways), really was what ended OSU's day there. Was that the play call, Smith's mistake, the refs making a call in a high stake moments is anybody's opinion at this point. But OSU was in the shape to win the game. It was going to be tricky to get back to around the 30 against with a 15 yard penalty with the other team in a prevent or dime anyway with that time left.
And I do not recall but I think the one guy was getting off the field, but anyway. This would be benefiting the defense late in the game if used like this. Clever, sure but usually penalties are not designed like this.
No one was going off the field. They just assumed given the environment the refs would miss it pre-snap, and despite Coach Day YELLING AT THE REFS, they did miss it...
They just put the 12th guy deep which allowed them to play aggressive press coverage on our WRs with no fear of getting torched for the game winner.
It was out of time-out, and kudos to them. They correctly guessed Kelly was going to overload one side of the field, which just made it even easier to defend..
Go Bucks!!!
Yet another example of the HORRIFICALLY bad officiating. #1 they should have been flagged. #2 after Ryan pointed that out and no one left the game they should have been a second flag for UNSPORTSMAN LIKE conducty and the time put back on the clock and the ball moved 15 Yards close and time left to run at least 2 possibly quick throws to the endzone
You WIN with people.
WW Hayes
Whatever the call, OSU was outcoached on both sides of the ball.
Meh. They can keep their "winning is winning" attitude.
They said they knew they could play tight coverage because they knew they had extra help over the top
Will Howard slid and Innis called TO with time left on the clock. If you think four more seconds wouldn’t have changed things, you must have trouble tying your shoes.
Hmm
The thing is Dan Lanning just publicly admitted they did it on purpose because they knew the rule and Day and the staff did not. He knew it was a live ball foul that would start the clock.
1) Day got out coached here because of that.
2) Have to respect the non coach speak answer. Day would've never admitted that out loud.
It would have been a moot point if os had called timeout after the PI, but they lost valuable seconds that can't be replaced when they didn't. It seemed like a lot of seconds ticked off before they got the next play off.
Gaming the system is just another form of cheating... Getting away with it just proves you're smarter than the dumbass refs. Go to the line and cross it. Where have we heard that before?
Blaming the refs? They don't write the rules.
It wasn’t cheating, but it was definitely unethical.
Hmm
This. Can’t get mad at Dan Lanning for being wise in a crucial situation. But the more I think about this, they should absolutely change the rule. You shouldn’t have a penalty that benefits the other team…that is just common sense.
"Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wilderness is a necessity..." -John Muir
It's this logic where people jump on the rich for exploiting "tax loopholes". There are no "loopholes", it's called tax law.
They didn't cheat. Rules are rules. it was freaking genius......
Easy there, Lane Kiffin.
I thought it was incredibly shrewd even if I didn't like it and believe there needs to be a rule change of some form. There's a rule against in-person scouting of opponents, not (yet) against this action, but there will be.
OSUAlumInAZ
It is within the rules I have no problem with it... hopefully Day keeps that in his back of his mind and uses it for his advantage in another game with the same circumstances... whether the rule should be changed can be questioned as it provides an unfair advantage IMO but at this point it is in effect as of now...
Refs will 100% be told now if a team is clearly playing with 12 men with no intent to remove the 12th man to call a 15 yard penalty. Especially since this happened in a huge game and not like Northwestern vs Ball State
They will have to change the rule....NFL has it and we need to as well to prevent BS like this. I don't blame him it isn't written like that now but going forward? That said it probably wasn't on purpose but Dan Lanning will never admit that it was.
Bbc11
It's cheating. If they intentionally did it to eat up time, that's unsportsmanlike conduct. Just like the blatant holding example and what Ole Miss and others do by faking injury to rest their defense. The problem is it's hard to know what their intent is at the time.
"Make Helen Well"
its only cheating if you get caught - connor stallions.
I'm skeptical of theories that assume other people are evil masterminds exploiting a very specific loophole. Occam's Razor would suggest that things in the last minute are chaotic and a coach thought he needed a sub (basically the inverse of the ND game last year)
It also could backfire if Howard noticed it presnap- he could have just spiked and gotten 5 yards in :01. That would get us closer with essentially no time lost. Seems like kind of a gamble for coaches to hope to get away with it.
The intent shouldn’t matter. If they fucked that up in such a crucial situation and were able to gain such a huge advantage from it, it should be an automatic 15 yard penalty for being able to screw with the clock.
I think they absolutely did it on purpose. 5 yards for 5 seconds basically at that point in the game from where we were on the field is a no brainer..
When I watch the replay, I'm still wondering if Kelly didn't think we had a timeout left. He abandoned the run even when we got into FG range, and he's throwing the ball in a sideline flood package. There's 10 seconds, middle of the field was open all game. It's like he forgot there was a two minute warning and thought we blew through all 3 timeouts..
Go Bucks!!!
Play the infield back and trade an out for a run is something done every day in baseball. Baseball serves as the analogy for everything in life. Trading five yards for 40% of the remaining time on the clock is a no brainer. Well done Lanning. Well done indeed.
I'd agree if the one putting too many players in on purpose admitted they did it intentionally but they wont because they he might be admitting to unsportsmanlike conduct. Just like with faking injuries, if it's legal within the rules you don't have a problem admitting to doing it. Playing the infield back is different. Oregon put in an extra fielder.
"Make Helen Well"
Good lord, you're such a whiner. Cry some more.
Just like the intentional kick to our player that bounced off, it was a bit genius. Sandlot football. But intentional time killing through unethical play has no place.
Go Bucks! TTUN tears are best!
Oregon was very intentional in everything they did in this game, including the onside kick. Dan Lanning's reaction after the kick was telling. As a defensive-minded coach, it would not be surprising if the 12-man call were his brainchild.
I hope we get a rematch
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
Win out and leave no doubt, and they will get that rematch...
"There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Woody Hayes
Leave no doubt, and 12 men penalty doesn’t matter
I still don't understand how the last play wasn't reviewed. Howard was easily down with over a second left
Because even if he’s down the official still has to grant the TO and the officials on the field can easily just say they didn’t grant the TO before time expired
Clock wouldn’t stop in that situation since it wasn’t a first down, so there would have to be proof that a coach was calling timeout before 0:00s.
Def possible Day was
Same result if it had been reviewed. Only way the clock stops there and gets overturned if it was a first down, that would have stopped the clock.. it wasn't a first down and he was still up with 1 second on the clock so its a running clock, he started his slide basically under a second and not at zero, no chance you get a TO like that..
His best option at that point would have been to see if Smith could have blocked everyone and tried to run it all the way..
Go Bucks!!!
No, the play is technically dead at the start of the slide. Howard started the slide at 2 seconds, and probably Day told ref that he wanted a TO at the end of the play. It's no different than when Saban got an extra second back because the player went OB.
the play is dead, the clock isn't.....
Didn't Kirby get a time out after the ball was snapped? Some explanation from the refs that Kirby was thinking about calling a time out so they had to give it to him.
VA_Buck
The NCAA should step in and adjust the rule as they did the Onside kick situation with Minnesota/Michigan
If not, why not trot 40 guys on the field?
Wasn't it the Big Ten who announced the onside kick changes after that game, not the NCAA?
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
If a team did that (Playing 40 defenders), the Refs would whistle the play dead so no time would go off the clock. Lanning counted on the dumbass B1G refs not noticing a 12th defender until after the ball was snapped.
"Friendship means little when it's convenient." - Shimazu
As stated in the article the rule is a live ball penalty. Not a dead ball penalty. Ohio State has to snap it for it to be called
My bad... I thought the ref had the ability to whistle the play dead on an illegal substitution penalty.
"Friendship means little when it's convenient." - Shimazu
That's the NFL rule and should be the college rule going forward.
If so, hey: good for them. I've bitched enough on this site about nefarious rule-breakers, and this ain't that. Live. Learn. Fix the rule.
This is a rule that I hope is visited in the off-season, but complaining about it now is just sour grapes. The games manship is permitted as the rule exists
Csr
Disagree. As set out in the article, it should be unsportsmanlike conduct if Lanning did it intentionally. Purposely violating a rule to gain an advantage is dishonest, not gamesmanship. Just because you get away with it (because it's hard to determine whether it was intentional or accidental) doesn't change that.
"Make Helen Well"
Didn’t Bert do this at Wisconsin vs Penn State at the end of the first half once to run time off the clock on repeated kickoff while intentionally committing a penalty?
This rule should be enforced similar as a defensive offside unabated to the QB. Too much of an advantage, play is immediately blown dead. That would save the refs from having to figure out what time to put the clock back too every time this penalty occurs.
Or just match the NFL rule; whatevs.
I hope we get a rematch.
The play counted so if we get 10 yards we get ten yards and decline the penalty...
exactly, if the ball is caught we get the ball at the spot, no penalty, unfortunately we didn’t catch the ball and time went as normal, but we got 5 FREE yards on an incomplete pass. doesn’t sound to clever to me
I dont often hate, but when I do...I hate _ichigan Wolverines. Stay victorious my friends.
I'm sure it was on purpose and the stupid rule needs changed.. like why not just do it again and run the clock down to 2 seconds or whatever?! Change the stupid rule.
The only thing I got out of this is Vrabel is our next Defensive Coordinator.
For what it's worth, this tactical concept has been around at least since the days of Buddy Ryan (father of Rex and Rob Ryan, coordinator for the '85 Bears, HC of the Eagles, etc.) He called it the "Polish Goal Line Defense" and it was not only an intentionally deployed tactic, it was literally in his playbook:
He apparently also had a "Polish Punt Team" for use in the same clock/score situation, but for a punting situation and not goal line defense:
Source: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-12-03-sp-480-story.html
One coach's gaming is another coach got out-coached. Just sayin.
OH-IO Goodbye Columbus, Living at the Beach
Who cares. Defense stunk and so did are clock management.
JJ
Smart! If you’re not cheating, you’re not winning. It’s college football. Advantage Oregon! Move on…
I hope that was worth it. Next time they try that its going to get called out and they could end up with a dead ball 15 yard penalty.
they got the win over a top two opponent so yeah, it was worth it to them......
I know people are saying get over it but this is the third huge game that we are a victim of refs or opponent dirty pool/gamesmenship. So we should complain. If we get a rematch I see us and karma kicking their ass. Ohio against the world is real not just a stupid phrase on a t shirt.
Banks of olentangy
If this article, which is about 14 yrs old, is correct then it should have been a 15 yard illegal participation instead of 5 yard substitution. Maybe this used to be the case and the rule no longer exists, or this old article is just wrong, but if anyone at eleven warriors or anywhere else has any insight, please enlighten.
https://www.teamspeedkills.com/2010/8/10/1614007/know-your-annoying-pena...
Baaaaaalllerrrr
I read somewhere it was removed from the rulebook around 2020, for whatever reason.
We gamed ourselves with the penalties and failing to call a TO.
Also, Denzel Burke looked like he ran a 4.9 and killed us.
True, but we still could have won if we had that four seconds back.
"Make Helen Well"
Yes, but they did not do anything wrong. They were penalized. We blew that game. Its on us 100%
They did do something but accepted the consequences for their wrong doing, which ended up inconsequential. They played to win the game.
If not now, when?
Obviously the rule needs to be changed and should have been already given how it's handled in the NFL. That is why The Rules Committee needs to careful vet the rules and run through every single scenario in which a rule could be perverted and turned on it's head to reward the team committing the penalty. They know coaching staffs are going to attempt to do these kinds of things so Rules Committee needs to be smarter than them and get ahead of these situations. Obviously this is not the intent of the rule and is an unintended consequence that has to be remedied. It's not in the spirit of fair competition to get rewarded for committing a penalty, especially in a situation where the other team has no real recourse or strategy to combat it. This isn't getting outcoached because there is nothing the team or coaching staff in OSU's position can do in this case, no chess move or strategy they can implement or counter with in that situation to avoid the impact - losing time for minimal yardage gain reward. Yes there are other issues like this I'm sure, but this is what we're discussing now, and yes OSU got outcoached, and yes if they didn't make other mistakes maybe they could have avoided that situation, but all that aside, when a team is in this situation there should not be mechanisms in the rules to just continue to bleed time off the clock and essentially take the ball out of the offense's hands. (And yes it was impactful otherwise Lanning wouldn't have done it. Deliberately putting 12 of his players on the field against 11 of OSU's.) (And of course there are a litany of things that could have been done differently or better up to that point, but in the midst of the game you don't dwell on those things and you try to win the game regardless. Obviously we all would have preferred to avoid that situation altogether but at that point that is where we were & it doesn't negate the fact that the rule needs to be changed. Let the kids/athletes decide it on the field and not turn a football field into a courtroom where coaches become lawyers trying to find technicalities in the rules to gain an unfair advantage instead of letting the game fully play out between the players.) Though with that said, Howard needs to get down a second sooner on the scramble and we take our chances with the field goal attempt wherever we are at that point. I don't fault Howard in that specific situation too much, he knew the time, kid was just trying to get his team and kicker an extra yard or 2 to make it a shorter kick and he saw the extra avaliable yards in front of him and just got a little too greedy based on the time remaining. And the footage shows he's down with a second left but trying to get the TO from the refs at that point was just too close, but just barely. He made some very good tgrows on that drive and did not look rattled to me at all as others have claimed. The moment wasn't too big he just tried to stretch for too much yardage on that last run. I was more frustrated with Howard fumbling the snap on 3rd & 3 leading to punt and good field position for Oregon. (His deep ball arm strength is my main concern for Will but that's perhaps a comment for another post.) Everyone knows Howard's stats for the game so I won't list them, but if you're going to start somewhere start with the D giving up 496 & 32 in 6 less minutes of ToP.
At this point use the bye to try to get some things figured out, get healthy and be ready to try to make the stretch run through the rest of the conference unscathed and take it from there.
Go Bucks.
Heard Rick Neuhiesel say that it by design.
I listened to Neuheisel's analysis of the last couple minutes of the game. He said that Lanning did this purposely, betting on the refs not choosing to consider it deliberate and assess the 15-yard penalty.
Neuheisel also couldn't believe that we didn't just move the ball via QB sneak a few yards on a couple plays to move it closer and more into the middle of the field, then let the kicker do his job. He did not agree with the throwing play calls because of what can happen, and did happen. Felt Howard was put in a no-win situation.
Yes, when we got to the 29 that was close enough. IDK….
He probably had the Georgia game in the back of his mind. A 46 yard field goal attempt isn't much different than a 50 yard attempt that was shanked and it was attempting to run instead of pass that left us with a 50 yarder.
That's a nice name. Todd Gack. Is that Dutch?
NFL caliber kickers are pretty automatic from 55 yards now....if we have NFL caliber players across the field, we should expect our kicker to be able to hit a 55 yarder.
I think after the 5 yard penalty, instead of trying to run a play w/ only 6 seconds left, I would have given the kicker a chance. Prove that he's got an NFL leg. Missouri won a game last year on a 60 yard FG at the end.
Let's Go Bucks
By gaming the system/rules, Lanning denied the players an opportunity to settle the game on the field. If Day did this bullshit to win a game, I wouldn't celebrate the win, I'd be ashamed my coach was a little bitch. No integrity for the game.
Behold the chunky whoop ass.
I would applaud Day for smart time management. Gaming the rulebook is common.Taking a delay of game to back yourself up for a better punt position etc... And as already mentioned. Tressel did stuff like this all the time. If you don't think it's right, change the rulebook about clock management after a penalty.
BubbaGumps
Except he didn't game the rulebook. The refs just didn't apply the rulebook correctly. intentionally playing with 12 men is a 15 yard penalty
It's not the 12th man that makes it a 15 yard penalty. The rule on defensive substitutions is that the defense is allowed to have more than 11 men on the field until the ball is snapped in order to account for possible offensive formations, and that it is a live ball penalty if more than 12 remain on the field. It doesn't matter whether all 12 participate in the play, whether it was intentional or not, whether a sub was getting off the field or not. 5 yard penalty from the previous spot, repeat the down.
What makes it a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty is if the referee determines that the defense committed any unfair act (such as an intentional penalty) with the intent to waste time toward the end of the game. This is where the 12th man that subbed in late should have been called for the penalty, and the referee has the discretion to determine if any additional penalty is warranted, such as adding time to the clock, awarding a score, or additional yardage. However, since this is inherently a subjective penalty, there is no mandate that the referee must do this. What many of us are hung up on is that the referee chose not to make a call that is by nature subjective.
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Call it what you want. I understand your frustration. Lanning had a plan, Day did not. Or at least, it was not as good of a plan as Lanning's.
If Day wants to start winning the top five games, then he's going to need a better crunch time plan for offense and defense and start demanding this from his coordinators.
StumpFickell
I’ll just leave this here; (case closed)
On Oregon's 12 men on the field penalty: “I guess they could put 20 guys on the field if they wanted to, I guess you would spike it so you save that time, then you can get five more yards. ... But there was still an opportunity there. ... You think back on a lot of things, trust me I've gone through every play 1,000 times in my head.”
Who said this?
Day
We need a coach who is capable of processing all these things in real time during the game, not in the days after when it is too late. Day is not him.
The sub came on from the far side of the field like 3 seconds before the snap. I doubt Will Howard could have seen it in time, and how could Day have communicated it to Howard at that point without blowing his last time out?
I wouldn't say there is a coaching issue with how we handled the situation, they would have had to anticipate Oregon doing this ahead of time and Howard would have had to know to look for it.
We can argue that the rule needs to be changed to put the time back on the clock when under 2 minutes in the 2nd/4th quarters when there is a live ball penalty where a down is repeated and the penalty yards are assessed from the previous spot. Or make illegal substitution a dead ball penalty that stops play (as it is on the offense). Or fill in the blank on how else to word the rule to make it fair. Or emphasize the use of the unfair act rule in situations like this.
But saying Day failed in this situation is ridiculous.
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Lanning was smart enough to make the decision. Ducks out coached out rushed and outplayed the Buckeyes. Now fix the defense.
If you can’t make a fourth and one, you don't deserve to win.
Short answer: yes.
You can almost hear him turning and saying into his headset "Got 'em". Not literally, but, figuratively.
Lanning absolutely brought the extra defender onto the field on purpose. Smart move to steal time. Tressel used to steal a little extra time at the end of games by having an offensive lineman jump just before the snap.
Now that college football has a 2 minute warning, they should have end of half/game options. The offense should be given the option of resetting the game clock when the defense commits a penalty. Really easy change that helps protect the integrity of the game.
Punk’d
In Ryan Day & Ross Bjork We Trust.
Who knows but the OPI call was complete BS.
JoeCleveland
Yeah for sure, all receivers should be allowed to chuck their defenders two yards before catching the ball. Bet you'd call foul if Oregon did it for a late game completion against os.
Above all else, this was on the defensive game plan, and lack of effective corrective measures. Why did it take so long to put an effective blitz package in. What else could you do when a 6' quarterback has to pass with taller and larger offensive and defensive linemen in front of him. Put someone in his face, try hands. I'm tired of hearing "we got to fix that". out!
Any rule which can be easily manipulated is nothing but stupid. Similar to PI being a 15 yd penalty when the foul stopped a 30 yd play. Spot foul is the clear and obvious solution as in the NFL, allowing teams to extend the clock by running out an extra guy has no rational explanation.
t s blue
Beilema gamed the system this way when the NCAA added a rule to start the clock on the kick for kick offs. Twice consecutively near the end of the half he had his kick team run intentionally 10 yards offsides which would limit the opportunity for a return and burn the clock for a re-kick with a 5 yard penalty. The next week, instructions were sent out that deliberate attempts to burn the clock by a team intentionally committing a foul would result in a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty.
Lanning gamed the system once and counted on refs not catching on. Probably can't get away with it again.
Each game is its own season. They can do it at least once a game and not be penalized until the Big steps in. You seriously think just because a few os fans say it was intentional the refs will call a penalty every time moving forward? That would penalize every other Big team unfairly, for what could very well be an honest mistake, for the other 17 teams.
After the B1G issued its directive on the intentional kick-off foul no one tried it again. I would guess if the message is sent clearly, then the situation won't arise again.
To another point, is there anyone who doesn't think participating with more than 11 men on the field shouldn't be a 15 yard penalty by default? Not talking about a team having 12 men with one scrambling to get off the field and not participating, but 12 men actively participating in the play. IF PI is a 15 yarder, it seems this foul is at least as egregious.
Reminds me of when the Ravens ran out the clock on the Bengals by committing 10 holding penalties on one play to eat up the last 15 seconds of the game.
i can’t fault somebody for knowing the rules and using them to their advantage.
Oregon coach is a cheating fucking asshole. He needs to be regarded the way we regard the cheating bitch Jim Harbaugh. we will face this motherfucker again, and we will curb stomp his ass. He needs to be fined or suspended. Just like the rest of the officiating crew who took away our time out an opportunity to kick a field goal.. Ohio State needs to respond like the Roman army, that eventually obliterated Carthage and salted the Earth. That is the justice they deserve. Will Howard is a quarterback, genius who was clearly looking at the clock and slid with enough time to use our last time out and should be praised rather than looked at as some kind of idiot. He should be the first quarterback drafted next year if any NFL team has half a brain. He is the next coming of Josh Allen. I would love for the Browns to pick him up.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
This
You forgot the sarcasm font.
The refs could have ignored the OPI knowing it would change the outcome and also could have called the 12th man pre snap and we would of won.
Why are we leaving it up to refs to decide a game? We should be dominant enough that it doesn't matter...if Judkins doesn't act like a pussy on that one run and let a defender take the ball right out of his hands, Oregon doesn't get an easy early TD and we win.
If Day decides to go for 2 like the analytics say you do when a TD puts you up by 5, so that you have a 7 pt lead, then at worst the game is tied at the end and when the clock runs out we go to OT.
Or if Denzel Burke decides to cover his guy and actually act like a shut down corner, similar to so many Buckeye greats of the past, then the game is a blow out.
I'm tired of the blaming the refs for a loss. Don't let the game be close enough for them to make a decision that could hurt us.
Let's Go Bucks
I wonder if Marcus Freeman is wishing he took a 12th man penalty instead of holding back his guys.
In fact, Dan Lanning might have gotten the idea watching last years ND game?
-Go Bucks!
This will lead to a rule change in the offseason. The NFL already crossed this bridge.
“Gamesmanship”, “Smart”, “Good coaching”. No, none of that. The NFL judged this conduct to be “Unsportsmanlike “. That is the word I prefer to use to describe Dan Lanning.
"You either get better, or worse, you never stay the same." Woody Hayes
It's not the NFL. Unethical sure. Unsportsmanlike likely. But it is what is, smart.
If not now, when?
If not now, when?
The game has changed so much over the years. Maybe it’s the money involved, maybe it’s the world we live in. I just feel like there isn’t accountability anymore. Between tcun, player spitting, and Kirby Smart shoving an opposing player....crickets. Not comparing Kirby to Woody at all but if that shove happened here, cmon...I’m still not over tattoos haha
Punk Ass Bullshit move
100% Bush League
OH-IO Goodbye Columbus, Living at the Beach
Sure they did, but is legal. Need a rule change to punish this. 5 yd penalty plus restore game clock to time at snap plus an additional 10 seconds for too many on field in last 2 minutes of each half.
buckjunky
What a douche
Seems to me we could have just let them score earlier and had minutes to come back down the field and score the last points as well leaving us a victory.
All in all, poor play calling, poor officiating and stupid game plan. Just win it all now.
Go Bucks! TTUN tears are best!
Tired of the excuses and what ifs. There has been incredibly way too many of those in recent years and we play close games but we by no means can expect a victory in any of these.
Not managing your time and making excuses are two bad habits.
BubbaGumps
People run scams all the time and many hold their head up like they've accomplished something worthwhile. This guy scammed time off the clock to win a game. He also had a player spit on an opposing player. He also works for a university athletic department that is awash in profits from a low-ethics manufacturer that's built an empire using sub-living wage foreign labor.
Anybody else see a pattern here?
Screw the Blue (and that gawd-awful yellow)
Yeah, Oregon is trash.
Sorry for the link to espin, but...
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41802259/dan-lanning-sa...
Ohioan by birth, Buckeyes fan by choice
Lanning admitted to the strategy.
Officials had the choice for illegal substitution or illegal participation, which is somewhat subjective.
The question I have is if the penalty was during the live play, as explained by the officials, why wasn't the penalty illegal participation. Since illegal participation has the clock started at the snap and illegal substitution has the clock started at the official's ready this is a huge difference. Let alone the penalty yardage.
But alas, the L is in the books.
Ohioan by birth, Buckeyes fan by choice
Illegal participation isn't a rule.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/62617eabfd665875f00e2040/t/666c6f...
RULE 3 / Periods, Time Factors and Substitutions
SECTION 5. SUBSTITUTIONS
As much as we all hate it - defensive 12 men on the field is a live ball foul and was therefore called correctly.
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If it’s all done correctly then why is the ncaa about to make a change to the officiating of that rule?
The rule was applied correctly - but the rule is inadequate, that's why.
Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.
There’s a part of the rule that allows the official to make it UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT. They could have but didn’t. That’s what the change will be during the season. The green light to call it if they believe it to be the case. Won’t happen again this season tho.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR24_20240724.pdf
c An obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules occurs during
the game This includes substitutes, coaches or any other persons subject to
the rules, other than a player or official, interfering in any way with the ball
or a player while the ball is in play (AR 4-2-1-II, 9-2-3-I and 9-2-3-IV)
PENALTY— Unsportsmanlike conduct. The referee may take any action
they consider equitable, which includes directing that the
down be repeated, including assessing a 15-yard penalty,
awarding a score, or suspending or forfeiting the game [S27].
Ohioan by birth, Buckeyes fan by choice
Lanning is playing chess, Day is playing checkers.
Winter meeting with all Colleges...Change the FUCK'N RULE...call it the Buckeye Rule...time to stop beating the damn horse...this is still Great Team...we will win the "Natty "...wake up call...Go Bucks
So this just means the rule will be changed to an automatic 15 yard penalty with the time put back on the clock so the ref doesn't have to judge intent. Of course, this also means, in accordance with long standing tradition, that OSU will have 12 men on the field without any intent to deceive during the playoffs and will be hit with the back breaking penalty at the most critical time.
So you put 12 in to keep up a big play, that penalty put them in long FG range from none. Also, the play they ran only took 4 seconds, so with 6 left and a timeout, then should have run another play for about 5 yards making it 48 yard FG attempt so for the most part that 12 man plan should have given them 10 yards. Who knew that after a timeout and 5 yards and knowing they had a timeout to use the whole field to gain yards, they would run their final play. Was there and still cannot believe it.
It’s being reported the NCAA is actually looking to enact change during the season. They can’t completely change the wording of the rule but I guess they will possibly instruct the officials to look at it closer and use their judgement on if it’s “by accident” or on purpose, which is a different penalty.
I blame Lanning plenty.
The "kick the ball into a up man" on an onsides kick is clever enough.
The "intentional penalty exploitation of a loophole" is cheating. It's gaming the system. It's crap.
I would not be proud of our team if we exploited a loophole. It IS like what Michigan does.
So I hate Lanning, and while Oregon is not worthy of Clemson or Michigan hate, they're now worthy of disgust. So I can't wait to pound their faces later.
Can't beat us fair and square, Danny?
Many of us sounds desperate on here. We need to take our L. Oregon played a better game and made less mistakes than we did. Had we executed better, we would have been victorious. We lost the turnover battle, the penalty battle and field position battle. We can control most of that. We did not. I would have loved for the best case scenario to actually have happened but it didn't. Accept this like we had to accept the Non-targeting call on Harrison. Move on as a fan. If the team holds on like we do, this would be catastrophic.
I hope it makes them angry.
Coach Day, apparently the Oregon coach knows and understands the entire rule book. Perhaps you need to take the Rule book home with you and Actually read it. Be aware so these types of situations don't happen any more.
Learn the actual rules so you can do your job.
Many are suggesting Oregon cheated because they know the rules. Somebody should be embarrassed.