Skull Session: Ohio State Fails to “Leave No Doubt” Against Oregon, the Rushmen’s Fall Off Needs to Be Studied and Traeshon Holden Apologizes for Spitting on Davison Igbinosun
The OSU defense didn't play great, but there was one player in particular on defense that was the main problem. Great players may get beat once in a great while, but you would never see Gamble, Springs, Apple, Lattimore, Ward, Okudah, etc get burnt over and over in a game. Oregon saw a weakness and exploited it. According to PFF, 8 targets, gave up 8 catches for 179 yards. That is not acceptable.Unless he was sick or inured, I am not sure a wake up call will fix that particular problem.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
Unless he went back into the game too cocky, I remember him quoting something prior to the game, but to what extent I don't remember.. maybe someone can help me out with that one?
I believe in Ryan Day being Ryan Day. Since baseball provides all the analogies for life, he is playing to the back of his baseball card. At some point in a long season, a guy reverts to his career averages. It may be that Ryan is simply playing to his long-term average here. I hope not and that we see an Alabama like dominance emerge.
None of that is to be negative. At this point I hope in Ryan Day more than believe in him.
Ryan Day is who he is. Nice guy, decent human being, a very good football coach. Yet like the protagonist in a Greek tragedy, does he have a tragic flaw.? .Does Ryan Day lack a mean, nasty killer instinct and does that translate to his teams performances?
Ohio State's claim to fame is having the resources and talent to be a consistent winner over the decades. Ryan Day is the perfect coach to carry that legacy forward. That is what Ohio State is. That is who Ryan Day is. Who has it better than us in the long term?
Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72
Howard had a really solid game. I think he loses a little appearance of maturity by saying Oregon didn’t really beat us, we kind of beat ourselves. Here’s the problem with that mentality, it smacks of the world revolving around only Ohio State. It’s the same crap that we hear from the DB’s self proclaiming BIA because they cover OSU receivers everyday in practice. There are external forces out there that, with wills and fight. Be humble in knowing that, and have your resolve come from your work and practice habits. Did Oregon “leave no doubt.” I don’t think so, but they beat us soundly in proactive coaching, and in talent match ups in many areas, and were at least our equals in scheme. Tip the cap, and fight like hades, to improve on your weakness. Self proclamation of being good works in local news and blog sites, not so much between the white lines.
I really like Will Howard. His sincerity, upbeat personality, positive attitude etc. He is growing and improving each week. One area I dont see hi musing enough and / or quick enough at times is the dump down to the RB.
On the very first play of the last drive, where he slipped and went down. Treveyon Henderson sneeks out to the wide side, no one is with him, a single WR is running a post with the DB running with him. the only safety within 20 yards has shifted towards the diddle of the field. A quick out to him would easily have got 10+ yards. Make 1 guy miss and/or the WR blocks his man, Treveyon could take it all the way. This is something that CJ became very good at seeing and doing quickly. Howard will get there I believe. He will see things like this in the film and make adjustments. This team will continue to get better assuming the defense starts inproving as well
As Rob Oller wrote in the Dispatch.....or paraphrasing: "Sorry Will. Oregon DID beat you. You didn't beat yourselves." I can forgive it since it was in the heat of the moment, but his beloved team was beaten. Oregon was given nothing except a touchdown hole to dig out of when Kacmarek was stripped of the pass that he caught. The general theme of this team needs to be....cut the talk Go show it on the field.
Dear family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, former coworkers, people around me, all people of the world, my pets, and Buckeye Hill,
I sincerely apologize for words I have typed in frustration. That is not who I am. To everyone who knows me personally, I am most sorry. To people who kind of know me, I regret saying what I said.
Signing a form letter is the absolute bare minimum. He should still sit, if Oregon has any class at all.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
Everybody knows Igbinosun is one of the biggest trash talkers on this Buckeye squad. I have a sense Iggy goaded Holden into spitting on him. If so, a nice strategic play by Iggy.
"We're going to give the ball to dumb-ass and grind meat"--Woody Hayes
The thing to me that might be the most concerning is the mental makeup of the team the last 4-5 years. Basically since TCUN started cheating. The team plays confident & poised when in control but at the first hint of adversity against a talent equated team (Judkins getting the ball ripped out of his hands behind the line) everyone seems to tighten up and play nervous, almost in a panic that it’s happening again. (x7 at this point Ryan)
The ability to fight back against teams equal to and/or being more talented by thos team has been LACKING since Day took over because he has no fight and definitely has no will to win in the clutch...
Great article AND a Ted Lasso quote, well done Chase.
In my opinion we have great defensive ends but the game has evolved with the RPOs to mitigate them and also we don’t have generational talents like Chase Young and Nick Bosa on the roster that wrecked teams all by themselves that we’ve gotten so used to and I think that’s important to address.
Oregon is not the only team to run RPOs. When you watch other teams play, they are still disruptive against the same type of offensive scheme. I dont see anything but bull rushes (which hardly ever get home) from our DEs. Curry is about the only one who seems to get home with this technique. if you cant get home with straight bull rushes, you need to run some twists and stunts or bring heat from other areas (LBs, corners). Safety blitzes can work, but often end up costing a huge gain if they dont get the sack. its like there is no agression with these DEs.
A few things. Sacks is an overrated statistic. How many pressures are generated and what are the linemen's win rate. Sacks are like hockey goals in that they are outliers. A team can win the game by forcing the opponents to concede throwing the ball quickly even if no sacks are registered.
The tactical issue is both DE's are essentially anchors. There are different schemes. Ideally you want one anchor and one dedicated speed rusher. Bigger guys are not going to be able to do the bend thing and get around the corner. The Bosa brothers were special because they could do both.
The alternative is blitzing. Blitzing is often about the cleverness of the defensive coordinator. An obvious blitz is just an easy opportunity for an elite QB. It cannot be transparent. It may be that Knowles has a ceiling.
That said there are no dominant teams in 2024. I still call out Georgia as the most likely foe. Oregon has flaws that will show in a tournament where you have to win three games to win it all. Oregon's defense cannot stop the run and Texas can't run.
Jack S and JTT were top of the line 5 star players when they committed. IMHO neither has lived up to the hype. They were supposed to be the next Bosa or Young. Either that was wrong or they haven’t been coached or schemed right. Don’t get me wrong, they are very good players but they’re not Bosas or Youngs.
This shit goes back to before Jim Knowles was Defensive Coordinator. This dates back to post Young. Zach Harrison never lived up to the billing either. Javonte Jean Baptiste transfers out and is having a great season. Something stinks.
It seems that the DE philosophy is to stop the run and on pass plays the DEs have to protect the outside first, rush the passer second, then DBs play soft in the secondary. Both starting DEs are what they call strongside DE types and don't have the speed/bend to get to the QB quickly. This coincides with OSUs make them march down the field and force mistakes mentality. This works well with modern offenses(and lesser talent) but plays right into the hands of power teams. I saw this coming when we had trouble with Minnesota about 5 years back. They lined up with 7 OL and ran it even on 3rd and 5. Every BIG team was trying it after that. Michigan finally was the only BIG team with enough talent to use this and actually win games (once they got a competent QB). Oregon since the Chip Kelly days is a power run team that will then beat you over the top with speed when you cheat run or can't get to the passer. Should have seen it coming!
All three goals are the same and ALL are still in play, as they were before the start of the season:
Beat Michigan,
Win the B1G Championship,
Win the national championship.
I refuse to give up on this team. In 2014 it was "BELIEVE." If you Negative Ned's and Nancy's are so sure that Ohio State is going to lose, why bother watching? Go play pickleball instead when the Buckeyes play, or something. Have some balls and support your team. We always play better as dogs, which we'll probably be against PSU.
No matter the “intention”, even remotely quoting harbaugh/cheaters after a loss is probably not a good look. Atleast Holden apologized and I doubt that he spits on anyone again. It’s easy to say you believe in Day and the team but the vibe you put out there is less believable. I don’t come here to wallow in misery. I come here to talk Buckeye football, win or lose.
I don't know Holden or any other player that does something then "releases a statement" that apologizes for whatever they did but I always feel like it's the organization that writes the statement and tells the player "you post this on ... or you are history" and they do it. Same for most people who hold important positions in organizations and screw up. It would at least be a little more believable in this day and age of social media if they did it with a video recording. The cost is basically nothing but a few minutes of their time.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
It’s pretty obvious to me that the SID at Oregon put out that statement. The kid may be sorry for the incident and hopefully he is. Time will eventually show his true character.
It was encouraging that the line fared okay after Simmons went out. He is going to be missed for sure though.
Offensively OSU had a decent game, though if they were able to better protect the ball, OSU would likely have been a clear winner that game. Defensively, definitely some work to do. Oregon may be the best team they play all season. Ultimately the line wasn't getting to to the QB fast enough and Burke wasn't able to cover well enough to give the line extra time to get there.
Regardless, if you have to drop a game and take an L, this is about the best case scenario as OSU could have gotten.
The concern is the running game was not the same after Simmons left. Oregon is not a very good line team and the offense was one dimensional in the second half. The passing attack did what I expected because Oregon cannot play defense. That said, I still hold to my statement that everything should have been done possible to get Gabriel to Columbus. It would have guaranteed a NC. Howard may be good enough. It is just in doubt where Gabriel is a slam dunk. The number one rule for winning a NC, is have a elite QB. The only team that has won without one is Georgia. Even then Georgia had to get lucky.
IF he isn't elite, then what does that say about our Defense? Better not answer that. He threw as good of a long ball against us on Saturday as any QB in a long, long time. You can say he had all day to throw and you would be right. But his pass and spirals were as tight as CJs....and that is saying something. He can move in the pocket and he will have a future in the NFL. Not as a HOFer but as a QB regardless. He shredded us on Saturday. Gotta give him that.
It’s not bush league, it’s a smart head coaching move because he knew that Ohio State was driving and his defense couldn’t stop them. I’m sure Day would have employed the same strategy
It’s crazy to me that Lanning came out since then and says it was done purposely. Isn’t that the part of the rule that makes it unsportsmanlike? Won’t change the result but clarification would be nice.
It should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct with a fifteen yard penalty. If the 12 men on the field is discovered before the snap, it is a five yard penalty with no time off the clock. Once the ball is snapped, it becomes a fifteen yard penalty.
Day apparently was screaming at the officiating crew about the 12 men on the field but the incompetent officiating crew did nothing and, to compound the mistake. assessed the incorrect penalty. No surprise there.
In re-looking at the 12 men penalty. Oregon snuck the 12th man on the field late, and near the sideline so Howard (and maybe the refs) couldn’t see him. That’s not good coaching, that’s despicable.
"You either get better, or worse, you never stay the same." Woody Hayes
It’s unsportsmanlike plain and simple. You intentionally break a rule but you not only get punished but the offense does as well. Rule needs changed and they need to call it the Lanning amendment.
It’s not bush league, it’s a smart head coaching move
The ends doesn't justify the means. There's a spirit of the rule and no rule covers every situation. If true, he was guilty of unsportsman like conduct.
Between the 12 man and the line drive onside kick, Lanning prepped things that he knew he would need in order to win. I sure hope there’s a rematch in Indy.
An "apology" written by an intern in the SID's office rings hollow with me. How about apologizing directly to Igbinosun via phone call or video chat? Spitting at someone is not a "mistake", it's a disgusting act of disrespect that is inherent to the perpetrator. He should be suspended another game at the very least.
The lack of production has been the sane story for the last 4 years but yet it never improves. If I was paying these linemen NIL money, I’d want a refund. It’s time the rumors about LJ and Knowles get addressed or it will be another lost season.
The poll question is a good point. We have to wait for the presser or maybe the Nebraska game. Siereveld played quite well according to my eyes and arm chair. Maybe slide Tegra to tackle to use his mass and talent. Unless he just isn't good there, and I doubt that. As they are always a left tackle hero in high school.
The 12 men on the field penalty was not “illegal substitution” but “illegal participation”.
Once the play is run by the offense, the penalty changes. The “genius” play by Lanning actually should have been a boneheaded play if the officiating crew had administered the correct call. Ohio State should have been awarded a fifteen yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Just another screwup by a Big Ten officiating crew.
The Rushmen package needs to get to the QB. There were times when Gabriel had way too much time to throw. Obviously, we can’t get there when the release is fast but that wasn’t always the case.
The silver lining? Our defense played about as bad as they could have and we still only lost by one point. Think about that.
The biggest loss is Simmons. He was playing solid all year long. Someone has to step up and fill that void.
I look at some lower rated recruits that came from TCUN and other schools and they were major contributors to not only their college programs, but also now to their respective pro teams. I have to believe it falls on coaching.
if only it were just one play. we still haven’t heard what was going on with Denzel Burke. The athletic wrote an entire on what Dan Lanning did on gaming the system with the clock there. It’s not a good look for them. Not a good look for the referees either. Thankfully, the loss didn’t hurt us at all, and we will likely be back up to number two perhaps even number one after beating Penn State. They keep trying to make the game safer and making sure that it is fair. They need to make a blanket rule that defensive penalties cannot negatively affect the offense in anyway. Especially ones that are obvious. at a minimum, the time should go back on the clock. And, if the offense score scores a touchdown or makes a positive play with 12 men on the field then by all means the office should be able to decline the penalty and the time runs off the clock. This isn’t that hard. But that was one of three or four BS moments that the officiating crew got wrong. Yes, we move forward, but in doing so we must believe in this team and the coaches and leave all this negativity behind. Our guys fought hard last week and came up short. That happens in games. At least we are not talking about a loss to Iowa or Purdue or somebody like we had to deal with a few times with urban Meyer, Ryan Day always has his team ready to go and has so far not embarrassed us.
If there’s a 10sec runoff for the offense in certain situations, than a 10sec add on should be applied when the offense is losing and the defense commits penalties. It’s not that hard to fix.
Yeah if I was the coach, he would have went to my press conference and stood there and apologized in front of the camera then I would have excised him with no media questions. That would have meant more than a manufactured apology
Did we run any stunts or twists while rushing? Seemed like we just charged four guys up the middle play after play. Not exactly hard to scheme your protection against that.
I've lost faith in Larry Johnson in recent years. I know he's a legend both in recruiting and development, but the results have been thin in recent years. I also think I'm starting to believe the alleged conflict between him and Knowles on line play - you can't have two chefs in the kitchen. Let Knowles run it his way and Larry's feelings be damned.
I used to be able to say our DES were fine. My major concern was our DTS...the type recruited and when and lack of a true rotation despite being told in August by the DC, DL coach and Head Coach we would see that rotation this year because of blah. blah and blah. Against good teams...well. Our only true blind side OT is being replaced by a guy who has had very, very, very few plays when it counted over 31/2 years and almost none at blind side tackle. Simmons was athletic and quick. I fear a return to a plethora of Ole blocks coming from both OTS. I am hopeful both those problems get solved in 2 weeks. Not likely but hoping. I too really like Ryan Day. I humbly apologize for pulling the screen away but it is what it is.
“I hope it lights a fire under us, man, because I still have all the belief in the world in this team,” Howard said. “I don’t think (Oregon) necessarily beat us. I think we beat ourselves a little bit. I think we left some stuff out there that we have to learn from and get better because of. I think this is a good team, and we will see them again. I think the message has to be, ‘We have to grow from this and learn from this.’ This obviously isn’t have you want to do it, but you can’t let them beat you twice.”
Absolutely hate everything about this quote. Fails to take full accountability by saying OSU beat themselves and that Oregon didn't "necessarily beat us" and then makes the assumption that OSU will see Oregon again this year. You'll have to beat a really solid PSU team in Happy Valley, Indiana is on the rise and their HC is a proven winner everywhere he's been, and then expecting a automatic W against TTUN with Day on the sidelines for the Buckeyes is ludicrous.
Hopefully this isn't the mentality of the entire program. A mentality that OSU automatically deserves this rematch against Oregon in Indy. If it is, they won't make it to Indy.
"Show me a gracious loser and I'll show you a bus boy." -Woody Hayes
Regarding the Holden incident one thing I have to say is we should be proud of our Buckeyes and how the conduct themselves. Look at Alabama game a few weeks ago with Vandy, Holden’s spitting incident, GA players getting in trouble off the field. We don’t see any of that here. Also I think most of us would agree that the defense lost us the game but you know what, the offense picked them up. I am sure they were pissed and could’ve given up but they did not. That still goes back to coaching and them instilling the brotherhood values which to me is going to carry the Bucks far this season. Everyone makes mistakes .. it’s how you go from there. I am sure plenty will be worked on over the bye week leading up to Nebraska. Go Bucks!
If we were to "leave no doubt" we'd win by two scores, everytime. While that's a good goal, there are going to be one-score games, and single incidents can affect a single score.
It's a goal that can only be acheived if we can 1. beat the other team, 2. beat the bad bounces inheirent in football, 3. beat bad officiating. We'd have to be heavily superior to the other team.
A few days removed I'm seeing the game against Oregon like this... On the road in a small, but very difficult place to play, Ohio State did just about everything they could to wind up getting pounded on and they had a very good chance to win it at the end.
Assuming the Buckeyes see Oregon again in the Big Ten I do have a lot of faith that game can and should go differently.
Every week they need to get better, and Penn State is now do or die.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
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Sometimes a slap in the face is all a monster needs to wake up..we got you next time Dan, you caught us slipping this go round..see you in Indy!
The OSU defense didn't play great, but there was one player in particular on defense that was the main problem. Great players may get beat once in a great while, but you would never see Gamble, Springs, Apple, Lattimore, Ward, Okudah, etc get burnt over and over in a game. Oregon saw a weakness and exploited it. According to PFF, 8 targets, gave up 8 catches for 179 yards. That is not acceptable.Unless he was sick or inured, I am not sure a wake up call will fix that particular problem.
Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect - Woody Hayes
Unless he went back into the game too cocky, I remember him quoting something prior to the game, but to what extent I don't remember.. maybe someone can help me out with that one?
I believe in Ryan Day being Ryan Day. Since baseball provides all the analogies for life, he is playing to the back of his baseball card. At some point in a long season, a guy reverts to his career averages. It may be that Ryan is simply playing to his long-term average here. I hope not and that we see an Alabama like dominance emerge.
None of that is to be negative. At this point I hope in Ryan Day more than believe in him.
Good post.
Ryan Day is who he is. Nice guy, decent human being, a very good football coach. Yet like the protagonist in a Greek tragedy, does he have a tragic flaw.? .Does Ryan Day lack a mean, nasty killer instinct and does that translate to his teams performances?
Ohio State's claim to fame is having the resources and talent to be a consistent winner over the decades. Ryan Day is the perfect coach to carry that legacy forward. That is what Ohio State is. That is who Ryan Day is. Who has it better than us in the long term?
Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72
Howard had a really solid game. I think he loses a little appearance of maturity by saying Oregon didn’t really beat us, we kind of beat ourselves. Here’s the problem with that mentality, it smacks of the world revolving around only Ohio State. It’s the same crap that we hear from the DB’s self proclaiming BIA because they cover OSU receivers everyday in practice. There are external forces out there that, with wills and fight. Be humble in knowing that, and have your resolve come from your work and practice habits. Did Oregon “leave no doubt.” I don’t think so, but they beat us soundly in proactive coaching, and in talent match ups in many areas, and were at least our equals in scheme. Tip the cap, and fight like hades, to improve on your weakness. Self proclamation of being good works in local news and blog sites, not so much between the white lines.
LOTS of self-proclaiming around Ohio State.
I still cling to the idea of being a gracious loser, upset to the point of working harder to be better, but giving credit to your opponent first.
OSUAlumInAZ
Exactly! Unfortunately I have to spend my time defending the team I love from the other fans that I guess “love it too”.
I really like Will Howard. His sincerity, upbeat personality, positive attitude etc. He is growing and improving each week. One area I dont see hi musing enough and / or quick enough at times is the dump down to the RB.
On the very first play of the last drive, where he slipped and went down. Treveyon Henderson sneeks out to the wide side, no one is with him, a single WR is running a post with the DB running with him. the only safety within 20 yards has shifted towards the diddle of the field. A quick out to him would easily have got 10+ yards. Make 1 guy miss and/or the WR blocks his man, Treveyon could take it all the way. This is something that CJ became very good at seeing and doing quickly. Howard will get there I believe. He will see things like this in the film and make adjustments. This team will continue to get better assuming the defense starts inproving as well
As Rob Oller wrote in the Dispatch.....or paraphrasing: "Sorry Will. Oregon DID beat you. You didn't beat yourselves." I can forgive it since it was in the heat of the moment, but his beloved team was beaten. Oregon was given nothing except a touchdown hole to dig out of when Kacmarek was stripped of the pass that he caught. The general theme of this team needs to be....cut the talk Go show it on the field.
Oller is a hack..always has been
Leave no doubt
You have your opinion, I have mine. He is a featured writer in a newspaper. That's more than any of us can say as contributors to a message board.
Didn't see an apology to Davison Igbinosun, the one specific individual who probably deserved the apology. Oh well.
He’s addressed in the heading of the letter
Ah I see it now.. right there with all the other people in whose faces he spit. At least he mentioned him.
Just say you wanted to be negative
You actually think he wrote that himself?
Michigan. lol.
PSA: grayed out comments get read the most. Thanks!
Not at all
Shut up!! Stupid...
Dear family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, former coworkers, people around me, all people of the world, my pets, and Buckeye Hill,
I sincerely apologize for words I have typed in frustration. That is not who I am. To everyone who knows me personally, I am most sorry. To people who kind of know me, I regret saying what I said.
Ummm...no.
OSUAlumInAZ
..but he never apologized in this AI generated letter...ever...just because he put his name in the header doesn't mean squat
Leave no doubt
Signing a form letter is the absolute bare minimum. He should still sit, if Oregon has any class at all.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
Davison's name should have come first, not last. He was the one wearing the guy's saliva.
Cancer sucks!
Someone apologized. But looking at the cheesy grin on his face after spitting blatantly showed what he really thinks.
Everybody knows Igbinosun is one of the biggest trash talkers on this Buckeye squad. I have a sense Iggy goaded Holden into spitting on him. If so, a nice strategic play by Iggy.
"We're going to give the ball to dumb-ass and grind meat"--Woody Hayes
Iggy may have goaded him, but into spitting on him? get out of here with that garbage
Leave no doubt
The thing to me that might be the most concerning is the mental makeup of the team the last 4-5 years. Basically since TCUN started cheating. The team plays confident & poised when in control but at the first hint of adversity against a talent equated team (Judkins getting the ball ripped out of his hands behind the line) everyone seems to tighten up and play nervous, almost in a panic that it’s happening again. (x7 at this point Ryan)
It’s all in the leadership.
You have a point, but I'll disagree with adding Judkins to that equation as he's a 1st year member of the team.
"Put ya' weight on it"
The ability to fight back against teams equal to and/or being more talented by thos team has been LACKING since Day took over because he has no fight and definitely has no will to win in the clutch...
GO BUCKS
That's maturity and leadership issue and it starts with the coaches.
OSUAlumInAZ
Great article AND a Ted Lasso quote, well done Chase.
In my opinion we have great defensive ends but the game has evolved with the RPOs to mitigate them and also we don’t have generational talents like Chase Young and Nick Bosa on the roster that wrecked teams all by themselves that we’ve gotten so used to and I think that’s important to address.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
Oregon is not the only team to run RPOs. When you watch other teams play, they are still disruptive against the same type of offensive scheme. I dont see anything but bull rushes (which hardly ever get home) from our DEs. Curry is about the only one who seems to get home with this technique. if you cant get home with straight bull rushes, you need to run some twists and stunts or bring heat from other areas (LBs, corners). Safety blitzes can work, but often end up costing a huge gain if they dont get the sack. its like there is no agression with these DEs.
Big B
A few things. Sacks is an overrated statistic. How many pressures are generated and what are the linemen's win rate. Sacks are like hockey goals in that they are outliers. A team can win the game by forcing the opponents to concede throwing the ball quickly even if no sacks are registered.
The tactical issue is both DE's are essentially anchors. There are different schemes. Ideally you want one anchor and one dedicated speed rusher. Bigger guys are not going to be able to do the bend thing and get around the corner. The Bosa brothers were special because they could do both.
The alternative is blitzing. Blitzing is often about the cleverness of the defensive coordinator. An obvious blitz is just an easy opportunity for an elite QB. It cannot be transparent. It may be that Knowles has a ceiling.
That said there are no dominant teams in 2024. I still call out Georgia as the most likely foe. Oregon has flaws that will show in a tournament where you have to win three games to win it all. Oregon's defense cannot stop the run and Texas can't run.
Hfhmilkan
Our great linebackers will clean it up if they get through the line.
I'd like to see Curry, Powers, and Matthews start vs Nebraska. We need an infusion of Youngbloods!
"Put ya' weight on it"
I couldn't agree more. But we know it won't happen.
Jack S and JTT were top of the line 5 star players when they committed. IMHO neither has lived up to the hype. They were supposed to be the next Bosa or Young. Either that was wrong or they haven’t been coached or schemed right. Don’t get me wrong, they are very good players but they’re not Bosas or Youngs.
Go by what I mean, not by what I say.
LEAVE NO DOUBT!
This shit goes back to before Jim Knowles was Defensive Coordinator. This dates back to post Young. Zach Harrison never lived up to the billing either. Javonte Jean Baptiste transfers out and is having a great season. Something stinks.
Fraudbaugh
It seems that the DE philosophy is to stop the run and on pass plays the DEs have to protect the outside first, rush the passer second, then DBs play soft in the secondary. Both starting DEs are what they call strongside DE types and don't have the speed/bend to get to the QB quickly. This coincides with OSUs make them march down the field and force mistakes mentality. This works well with modern offenses(and lesser talent) but plays right into the hands of power teams. I saw this coming when we had trouble with Minnesota about 5 years back. They lined up with 7 OL and ran it even on 3rd and 5. Every BIG team was trying it after that. Michigan finally was the only BIG team with enough talent to use this and actually win games (once they got a competent QB). Oregon since the Chip Kelly days is a power run team that will then beat you over the top with speed when you cheat run or can't get to the passer. Should have seen it coming!
Know thyself and seek self-improvement.
GREAT defensive ends? Where? Who?
I think it's more of a disconnect between the front 4 and back seven. Whether that's due to Knowles or LJ or Day I have no idea.
OSUAlumInAZ
Nice to see he apologized for the Duwk Tua
Moving forward (slowly) here as well.
Let's see how this team learns, adjusts, and moves ahead...go Buckeyes.
Did you check over your post before hitting save? Opinions only matter with clear titles and full details.
Reloaded my signature at a good clip, while consulting a magazine. Go Buckeyes.
lower-case go? I feel ya...
All three goals are the same and ALL are still in play, as they were before the start of the season:
I refuse to give up on this team. In 2014 it was "BELIEVE." If you Negative Ned's and Nancy's are so sure that Ohio State is going to lose, why bother watching? Go play pickleball instead when the Buckeyes play, or something. Have some balls and support your team. We always play better as dogs, which we'll probably be against PSU.
I'm squeamishly optimistic.
Just my 2c - Why didn’t the coaches insert Jermaine Mathews for the struggling Burke?
Go Bucks!
^^^This
A good general always makes you search for his weaknesses. - Woody Hayes
IMO we need a Jordan Fuller “stopper” defender or last some safety help.
~Because we couldn't go for three~
No matter the “intention”, even remotely quoting harbaugh/cheaters after a loss is probably not a good look. Atleast Holden apologized and I doubt that he spits on anyone again. It’s easy to say you believe in Day and the team but the vibe you put out there is less believable. I don’t come here to wallow in misery. I come here to talk Buckeye football, win or lose.
I don't know Holden or any other player that does something then "releases a statement" that apologizes for whatever they did but I always feel like it's the organization that writes the statement and tells the player "you post this on ... or you are history" and they do it. Same for most people who hold important positions in organizations and screw up. It would at least be a little more believable in this day and age of social media if they did it with a video recording. The cost is basically nothing but a few minutes of their time.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
It’s pretty obvious to me that the SID at Oregon put out that statement. The kid may be sorry for the incident and hopefully he is. Time will eventually show his true character.
It was encouraging that the line fared okay after Simmons went out. He is going to be missed for sure though.
Offensively OSU had a decent game, though if they were able to better protect the ball, OSU would likely have been a clear winner that game. Defensively, definitely some work to do. Oregon may be the best team they play all season. Ultimately the line wasn't getting to to the QB fast enough and Burke wasn't able to cover well enough to give the line extra time to get there.
Regardless, if you have to drop a game and take an L, this is about the best case scenario as OSU could have gotten.
The concern is the running game was not the same after Simmons left. Oregon is not a very good line team and the offense was one dimensional in the second half. The passing attack did what I expected because Oregon cannot play defense. That said, I still hold to my statement that everything should have been done possible to get Gabriel to Columbus. It would have guaranteed a NC. Howard may be good enough. It is just in doubt where Gabriel is a slam dunk. The number one rule for winning a NC, is have a elite QB. The only team that has won without one is Georgia. Even then Georgia had to get lucky.
Hfhmilkan
Gabriel is good, but by no means elite--or a slam dunk either.
Leave no doubt
IF he isn't elite, then what does that say about our Defense? Better not answer that. He threw as good of a long ball against us on Saturday as any QB in a long, long time. You can say he had all day to throw and you would be right. But his pass and spirals were as tight as CJs....and that is saying something. He can move in the pocket and he will have a future in the NFL. Not as a HOFer but as a QB regardless. He shredded us on Saturday. Gotta give him that.
I am starting to lose confidence in Day. Wake up Ryan.
Lanning is Bush League.
OH-IO Goodbye Columbus, Living at the Beach
It’s not bush league, it’s a smart head coaching move because he knew that Ohio State was driving and his defense couldn’t stop them. I’m sure Day would have employed the same strategy
I agree. Not sure Day would have done it. Bottom line is they are paid to win games and as long as it is within the rules I have no issue with it.
The NCAA needs to change its rule to be like the NFL where if the defense does it the time doesn't run off the clock.
You can also question if the officials should have considered it unsportsmanlike conduct. Lanning took a chance they wouldn't and guessed right.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
It’s crazy to me that Lanning came out since then and says it was done purposely. Isn’t that the part of the rule that makes it unsportsmanlike? Won’t change the result but clarification would be nice.
It should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct with a fifteen yard penalty. If the 12 men on the field is discovered before the snap, it is a five yard penalty with no time off the clock. Once the ball is snapped, it becomes a fifteen yard penalty.
Day apparently was screaming at the officiating crew about the 12 men on the field but the incompetent officiating crew did nothing and, to compound the mistake. assessed the incorrect penalty. No surprise there.
In re-looking at the 12 men penalty. Oregon snuck the 12th man on the field late, and near the sideline so Howard (and maybe the refs) couldn’t see him. That’s not good coaching, that’s despicable.
"You either get better, or worse, you never stay the same." Woody Hayes
At the least, it's an indication of being intentional and should have been a 15 yard penalty.
It’s unsportsmanlike plain and simple. You intentionally break a rule but you not only get punished but the offense does as well. Rule needs changed and they need to call it the Lanning amendment.
Go by what I mean, not by what I say.
LEAVE NO DOUBT!
The ends doesn't justify the means. There's a spirit of the rule and no rule covers every situation. If true, he was guilty of unsportsman like conduct.
Between the 12 man and the line drive onside kick, Lanning prepped things that he knew he would need in order to win. I sure hope there’s a rematch in Indy.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
An "apology" written by an intern in the SID's office rings hollow with me. How about apologizing directly to Igbinosun via phone call or video chat? Spitting at someone is not a "mistake", it's a disgusting act of disrespect that is inherent to the perpetrator. He should be suspended another game at the very least.
Let's not let him off the hook so easily.
The Management.
Leave no doubt
The lack of production has been the sane story for the last 4 years but yet it never improves. If I was paying these linemen NIL money, I’d want a refund. It’s time the rumors about LJ and Knowles get addressed or it will be another lost season.
Really disappointed in the defense. Knowles/LJ need to put the team above themselves and work for the common goal which is getting team wins.
If all of this is true, Day needs to put a stop to it. It’s his team and he needs to run it that way.
"I believe in Ryan Day. "
100%. ty
Michigan. lol.
PSA: grayed out comments get read the most. Thanks!
Don’t care.
Play better defense.
Go Bucks.
OSU ALUM
The poll question is a good point. We have to wait for the presser or maybe the Nebraska game. Siereveld played quite well according to my eyes and arm chair. Maybe slide Tegra to tackle to use his mass and talent. Unless he just isn't good there, and I doubt that. As they are always a left tackle hero in high school.
Self crowned Eleven Warriors humble-off champion.
The 12 men on the field penalty was not “illegal substitution” but “illegal participation”.
Once the play is run by the offense, the penalty changes. The “genius” play by Lanning actually should have been a boneheaded play if the officiating crew had administered the correct call. Ohio State should have been awarded a fifteen yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Just another screwup by a Big Ten officiating crew.
The Rushmen package needs to get to the QB. There were times when Gabriel had way too much time to throw. Obviously, we can’t get there when the release is fast but that wasn’t always the case.
The silver lining? Our defense played about as bad as they could have and we still only lost by one point. Think about that.
The biggest loss is Simmons. He was playing solid all year long. Someone has to step up and fill that void.
This.
“…Howard said. “I don’t think (Oregon) necessarily beat us. I think we beat ourselves a little bit…”
I’d say more like “a lot.” Penalties, mistakes, turnovers…
And then there was the defense, or the lack of.
On the other side of the ball; it was Chip Kelly's worst called game as the Buck's OC. Should have fed Tre with more carries in 2H.
Denzel Burke was not built for this prime time game, torched all night long, not just the two long TD's. Shut up and play better.
There's a lot of ball left to be played and our Buckeye's will be seeing the Ducks again in Indy
"The day they laid poor Poncho low, Lefty split for O-HI-O".
Not sure if more second half runs would have worked. We had 12 carries for 19 yards. Once Simmons and Tshabola got hurt, our run game wasn’t working.
Tshabola was back in the 2nd half.
He was playing hurt and wasn't quite the same when he did come back. Hopefully he can get back to 100% with the bye week.
Posted this link in the 12 men thread. Again, my apology for the espin link.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41802259/dan-lanning-sa...
Ohioan by birth, Buckeyes fan by choice
Are Sawyer and JTT among the most overrated recruits of all time (OSU history, at least)?
What, are you trying to be an Irish R&B singer??
Their stories aren't finished yet, but for the two highest rated defensive recruits at OSU, they have been inconsistent.
I look at some lower rated recruits that came from TCUN and other schools and they were major contributors to not only their college programs, but also now to their respective pro teams. I have to believe it falls on coaching.
OSUAlumInAZ
Chase, you left some Doubt.
Hmm
if only it were just one play. we still haven’t heard what was going on with Denzel Burke. The athletic wrote an entire on what Dan Lanning did on gaming the system with the clock there. It’s not a good look for them. Not a good look for the referees either. Thankfully, the loss didn’t hurt us at all, and we will likely be back up to number two perhaps even number one after beating Penn State. They keep trying to make the game safer and making sure that it is fair. They need to make a blanket rule that defensive penalties cannot negatively affect the offense in anyway. Especially ones that are obvious. at a minimum, the time should go back on the clock. And, if the offense score scores a touchdown or makes a positive play with 12 men on the field then by all means the office should be able to decline the penalty and the time runs off the clock. This isn’t that hard. But that was one of three or four BS moments that the officiating crew got wrong. Yes, we move forward, but in doing so we must believe in this team and the coaches and leave all this negativity behind. Our guys fought hard last week and came up short. That happens in games. At least we are not talking about a loss to Iowa or Purdue or somebody like we had to deal with a few times with urban Meyer, Ryan Day always has his team ready to go and has so far not embarrassed us.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
If there’s a 10sec runoff for the offense in certain situations, than a 10sec add on should be applied when the offense is losing and the defense commits penalties. It’s not that hard to fix.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
Very true. IF we beat Penn State, but I like the positive vibe!
OSUAlumInAZ
Oregon’s publicity folks wrote a helluva letter on Holden’s behalf there. Talk about cookie cutter apology.
"When I look in the mirror, I want to take a swing at me."
Wayne Woodrow Hayes
My thoughts as well. Does anyone believe Holden actually wrote that statement ?
Athletic director - "Here's a form letter we modified. Post this on your social media account. Add a Biblical reference for good measure. "
BubbaGumps
The writing skills of most college graduates are mediocre. This apology is expertly crafted with no grammatical mistakes. No way he wrote it himself.
wb5
fixed for accuracy
Leave no doubt
First they spit in our face. Then they spit on the game. This “apology” is another spit in the face. Eff them.
Hmm
Yeah if I was the coach, he would have went to my press conference and stood there and apologized in front of the camera then I would have excised him with no media questions. That would have meant more than a manufactured apology
Did we run any stunts or twists while rushing? Seemed like we just charged four guys up the middle play after play. Not exactly hard to scheme your protection against that.
I've lost faith in Larry Johnson in recent years. I know he's a legend both in recruiting and development, but the results have been thin in recent years. I also think I'm starting to believe the alleged conflict between him and Knowles on line play - you can't have two chefs in the kitchen. Let Knowles run it his way and Larry's feelings be damned.
True story: I served ribs to John Cooper.
Holden should be suspended 1 game at minimum. I'd expect us to do the same regardless of who the player was.
wb5
I used to be able to say our DES were fine. My major concern was our DTS...the type recruited and when and lack of a true rotation despite being told in August by the DC, DL coach and Head Coach we would see that rotation this year because of blah. blah and blah. Against good teams...well. Our only true blind side OT is being replaced by a guy who has had very, very, very few plays when it counted over 31/2 years and almost none at blind side tackle. Simmons was athletic and quick. I fear a return to a plethora of Ole blocks coming from both OTS. I am hopeful both those problems get solved in 2 weeks. Not likely but hoping. I too really like Ryan Day. I humbly apologize for pulling the screen away but it is what it is.
“I hope it lights a fire under us, man, because I still have all the belief in the world in this team,” Howard said. “I don’t think (Oregon) necessarily beat us. I think we beat ourselves a little bit. I think we left some stuff out there that we have to learn from and get better because of. I think this is a good team, and we will see them again. I think the message has to be, ‘We have to grow from this and learn from this.’ This obviously isn’t have you want to do it, but you can’t let them beat you twice.”
Absolutely hate everything about this quote. Fails to take full accountability by saying OSU beat themselves and that Oregon didn't "necessarily beat us" and then makes the assumption that OSU will see Oregon again this year. You'll have to beat a really solid PSU team in Happy Valley, Indiana is on the rise and their HC is a proven winner everywhere he's been, and then expecting a automatic W against TTUN with Day on the sidelines for the Buckeyes is ludicrous.
Hopefully this isn't the mentality of the entire program. A mentality that OSU automatically deserves this rematch against Oregon in Indy. If it is, they won't make it to Indy.
"Show me a gracious loser and I'll show you a bus boy." -Woody Hayes
Questions from these so called reporters are a joke. Let Day off the hook. Media of the future.
The real question is how are we going to fare sans Simmons
~Because we couldn't go for three~
Next man up. I think Michalski will rise to the occasion with some growing pains at times.
Regarding the Holden incident one thing I have to say is we should be proud of our Buckeyes and how the conduct themselves. Look at Alabama game a few weeks ago with Vandy, Holden’s spitting incident, GA players getting in trouble off the field. We don’t see any of that here. Also I think most of us would agree that the defense lost us the game but you know what, the offense picked them up. I am sure they were pissed and could’ve given up but they did not. That still goes back to coaching and them instilling the brotherhood values which to me is going to carry the Bucks far this season. Everyone makes mistakes .. it’s how you go from there. I am sure plenty will be worked on over the bye week leading up to Nebraska. Go Bucks!
BuckeyeBaylee11
The "leave no doubt" thing is pretty weak.
If we were to "leave no doubt" we'd win by two scores, everytime. While that's a good goal, there are going to be one-score games, and single incidents can affect a single score.
It's a goal that can only be acheived if we can 1. beat the other team, 2. beat the bad bounces inheirent in football, 3. beat bad officiating. We'd have to be heavily superior to the other team.
A few days removed I'm seeing the game against Oregon like this... On the road in a small, but very difficult place to play, Ohio State did just about everything they could to wind up getting pounded on and they had a very good chance to win it at the end.
Assuming the Buckeyes see Oregon again in the Big Ten I do have a lot of faith that game can and should go differently.
Every week they need to get better, and Penn State is now do or die.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
Quoting the Bible in the apology. Stop it already! You're a thug. Quit trying to put lipstick on a pig. It don't work bro!
klusewski
Buckeyes: 5 Star Team w/ 3.5 Star Coach. New Year and the same short comings.