Knowles got schooled and these veteran players are still confused on what we’re trying to do…in year three. Not a good combination in my opinion. And the refusal to do any twists or stunts with the D line is baffling.
I think Ross showed it was not entirely Knowles getting schooled. We can't tell if execution is a failure on game day or bad prep by coaches. The 50 yard TD was a combination of DL not executing the sim pressure and occupying the blockers and Burke gambling that the QB is going to have to get the ball out quick so bites on the first move. If Hamilton touches the guard for half a second and Styles runs at 4.4 speed through Gabriel's chest instead of getting redirected maybe that play looks a lot different.
I think Ross's side comment about going vanilla week 1-3 may give some clues. These guys had no game reps this year on these pressure looks against a spread team. Iowa doesn't present these types of conflicts.
The best news is these are all quality veteran players that can clean up their execution and we can self scout and put guys in some better positions.
Exactly. That first play Burke got beat, he is assuming the QB won’t have 10 seconds to throw the deep ball because we were supposed to be bringing pressure. Doesn’t totally excuse getting beat but it’s not nearly the bad play for him that people have been saying.
Yea, in other concepts if you have Ransom as like a robber over the middle instead of faking a blitz and dropping shallow then Burke is only worried about out breaking routes. It all fits together like you said.
It’s still a bad play by him. The ball was not held for an insane amount of time. It was still under 3 seconds time to throw and he is immediately beaten on the break of the route.
Yeah I mean I feel like something is up behind the scenes because there is no reason with these veteran guys and great guys we have that we should have that rough of a performance so hopefully we live and learn and get better from it
Defense has to start attacking offenses so they can get off the field and save their energy. Not like whatever they were doing to start the Marshall game just sitting back and playing passive and hoping the other team makes a mistake.
We brought in Knowles to fix these issues, and we are still having them in year 3. That is not a good sign. Something is amiss on that side of the ball for sure, and it does not bode well for the rest of this season.
Watch back the 50 yard TD analysis. That sim pressure is an attack, you are bringing 6 vs 5 blockers but then late dropping DL to try to disrupt hot routes. The DL didn't execute so Styles didn't get a clean sack opportunity and Burke bites on the route. It was an aggressive call meant to force a sack or hot throw into a wash of underneath defenders but the players have to do their jobs and Oregon just had better reps on some of these big plays.
He steps wide then takes a fake step across Burke's stance as if he is running a post or dig which wrong footed Burke and then ran wide around him. He didn't just fall asleep. It was a good route and Burke knew he didn't have help inside or over the top which contributes to the conflict he was in.
Asking defensive backs to be responsible for B gaps in the run game is a recipe for disaster. You need the DL or LBs responsible for A&B gaps, with almost zero exceptions. The smaller DBs need the room they have with C gap responsibility to outmaneuver the OL blocks.
Having DBs leave their run game responsibilities with no other player filling in has got to be a blown assignment! And we need to use more 4-3 when teams are having consistent run game success or that rely predominantly on the run game (like Michigan). Note in the player participation that neither Reese or Hicks were basically not used (4 plays total).
In the Big 12 he played a lot of offenses like Oregon's and did very well. He also had hybrid DL/LB players that can confuse blocking schemes by moving around and beefy DTs that can gain a gap against the run. But nothing I saw on this film study can't be corrected except maybe Cody Simon in coverage and JT being vulnerable to zone read plays.
I thought Knowles would do a decent job. He is a little better than Coombs and Barnes, but not by much. His 4th quarter stats are almost impossibility bad.
The more video I watch, the more this is almost entirely a defensive line issue to me. Too predictable, lined up too wide. No diversity in post-snap movement. Releasing straight into coverage rather than occupying the defender first is a clear coaching directive because they're all doing it regardless of who is in the game.
I don't care how bad Denzel Burke looked, no corner is locking down Evan Stewart for seven seconds. It's not happening. The blitzers are firing into the correct gaps. They're doing it quickly and with intent. There's just no hole for them to shoot through because the defensive line is not doing its job.
This is just careless, reckless defensive line coaching and I think the issues we see with Knowles are primarily a guy pulling out what little hair he has left trying to figure out how to accomplish what needs done while only controlling 7 players on the field.
Johnson is either very washed up or purposely hurting the team. I don't think there's really any other way to look at it. Either way it's on Ryan Day that it continues to be allowed to persist.
Completely agree. Watching the various film studies have been very sobering, unfortunately. I had a feeling the d-line was the problem last year and would be this year, but I was hoping they would improve.
I would still rather my school and team have these problems than the ones Ann Arbor is going to have by the end of the year though. So there's that.
"The minute I think I'm getting mellow, I'm retiring. Who ever heard of a mellow winner?" - WWH
He needs to be told now that Knowles is going to control personnel and tactics on the line and if Johnson doesn’t like it, he can just leave now and let LaAllan Clark coach the DL the rest of the year.
We have a golden opportunity this year and we shouldn’t be pissing it away because some old man wants to act like a child.
Would you continue to do that for about 1/10 of your current salary? The entire world knows that this isn’t an option. It’s only brought up by fans that don’t want to lose LJ but also don’t want to keep him for some reason. Can’t have it both ways but keep in mind, the ONLY reason Jahkeem Stewart and Malik Autry are considering OSU is to play for LJ.
No he doesn't. What he did 10 years ago hasn't earned him a pity job as an advisor in 2025 after beefing with everyone around him who disagreed with him for the last 5 years. Ryan Day got us in this mess by rewarding nostalgia and letting guys like LJ live off of past glory and reputation. The techniques Larry teaches don't even work anymore! Why should we keep a washed up, toxic, over the hill defensive line coach that teaches obsolete techniques just because he inherited Joey Bosa 10 years ago? We need to rip the bandaid off LJ once and for all. Larry has pissed away any good will he had left by being this stubborn and selfish. He needs to be treated like it.
Sadly, this is right. Beyond the stubbornness, JT and Jack simply have not reached the ceilings we expected, and nobody else has come in at DE and flashed like a superstar, either. JT and Jack are really good players who will be drafted, but they were 5 stars and they have never (not even Jack when he got rolling last year) played like 5 stars.
So, you have recruitment challenges when everyone can use his age against him. Scheme challenges because of seeming stubbornness. And player development issues where players are good, not great. It's time.
I'm concerned the defense is at its peak. A bunch of upper class players with multiple seasons in the system, you have to question is their room for growth or is this group as good as it's going to be.
This is a frustrating watch. It's all just basic things that should be automatic at this point. Really hard to trust Knowles and staff. Just fundamental stuff.
Larry Johnson has to go man. He is a legend but at this point he is either offering nothing new or is just an active detriment to the team. Its becoming aggravating to watch this team constantly squander it's resources and fight an uphill battle that is entirely self inflicted. A defense full of veteran players in their 3rd year of a scheme should be able to be unleashed and we constantly get that line fed to us by coaches and the beat, so why is it never seen on the field?
No there isn’t. It’s message board people making something up cause they don’t understand that our personnel doesn’t fit what Knowles did at Ok State. We tried to system in 2022 but we didn’t have a hybrid guy to play the Jack and we still don’t except maybe Sonny
What are you talking about!? CJ Hicks and Arvell Reese exist on this roster. Knowles even approached Sawyer early on to be a JACK because he has the skillset to do it, but LJ wouldn't let it happen. There are multiple guys on this roster with the chops to play Knowles JACK position, but the Associate Head Coach seems hell-bent on not allowing it to come to fruition.
Sawyer tried it and it failed. He can survive as a standup rusher but the Jack is so much more than rushing from a two point stance. Styles/Hick/Reese are probably the guys athletic enough to do both, but none of them have a complete skillset for the Jack yet.
Yall need to stop with CJ. He is a bad player. He got his chance and was awful. Arvell yes but he moved to LB in the spring. They’re not gonna design a scheme around a player with zero time in the position
In a few weeks, we are going to find out what this team is made of. Day has yet to face a true White Out game. Playing in an empty Beaver Stadium during Covid doesn't count.. PSU is a good football team. I was impressed how they came back and won a gutsy game at USC last week. Their new offensive coordinator has done a world of good for that team. They will be locked and loaded to get past their OSU curse.
This is not a Larry Johnson issue. He wants the DL to play aggressively rush the passer and create havoc. This is what Knowles wants - cage rush and tie up the OL - it’s a terrible scheme and it’s exposed against good throwing QBs and good WRs our DBs have equall talent with.
Our DL hasn’t been able to get pressure since our greatest D-Lineman ever left. Five years ago. There’s been plenty of talent that’s come and gone since then. Across multiple D Coordinators.
LJ is known for DE’s pinning their ears back and getting sacks. The last couple years have seen the DE’s getting less sacks and the term “cage rush” used a lot, which is the DL not pinning their ears back and holding their ground or just bull rushing straight at the OL to collectively squeeze the pocket. THAT is LJ changing his preferred style to fit in with the scheme. That’s proof that they are working together or atleast proof that LJ is doing what he’s told. The REASON Knowles isn’t using a JACK is there isn’t one on the roster. That’s why they were recruiting Justin hill and selling him on coming here to play the JACK. They need JACK players to play the JACK. Or listen to Biddle….
This is a great take based on what we *know*. Knowles' vision of DL is very different from how Johnson has done things all his career. Here is an excerpt from The Athletic from September 2022.
One thing Ohio State’s players are adjusting to up front is the way Knowles wants linemen to play blocks. During the fruitful Meyer years, the Buckeyes’ defense line (which has featured DL coach Larry Johnson since 2014) was an up-field rushing, penetrating group that’s goal was to reach out and hit running backs on the way to a sack. In the end, the goal of the defensive lineman was more about making a play than helping someone else make a play.
Now, it’s flipped.
“Block destruction” has come to Ohio State, and it’s a concept that looks exactly how it sounds. The goal for Ohio State’s front now — be it in an odd or even alignment — is to get off the ball and attack blockers with the intent of creating knock-back first. Destroy your block first, stop/slow offensive line combinations, win your gap, then go find the ball.
But in reality, by forcing his front defenders to think more about their help, Knowles can get more athletic tacklers to the football and help limit big gashes in the run game.
To Johnson's credit, he did change his philosophy in the first year of Knowles's arrival. The more I read about this topic, the more I convince myself that Johnson is not trying to hinder Knowles; he is trying his best to teach something that is not in his wheelhouse. Now, they keep making each other look bad on national TV. It's just a bad pairing.
If going forward we see the DE’s using spin moves and lots of stunts, fans will think it’s LJ listening to Knowles, when in reality it would be them letting LJ cook. I want to see the JACK but only when we actually have one that can do it.
I was just hoping after Knowles being here for multiple years and a veteran defense we would be less vanilla. It always seems like there is confusion when offensive players go in motion. Something is off and I think it's fair to look at the coaching staff first.
I was surprised by the lackluster performance against Oregon. But what really surprised me was the ho-hum performance of some of the top players. That's what disturbed me more. When Burke kept blowing coverage in spectacular fashion, I was at a loss for words. He never played that bad. Nobody is perfect and some players have bad days. But given that this was the biggest game on the regular season calendar, I was not expecting this level of play from the Defense.
Yards allowed and frankly even points allowed do not tell the entire story for a defense.
Examples:
last Saturday we allowed 32 points. in 2014 we allowed 35 to Bama. The Difference? The OSU defense picked off 3 passes, including a pick 6 and got 3 sacks, ie big defensive plays.
Clemson in 2020 we allowed 28 points (only 4 fewer than Oregon got), and over 400 passing yards. but had an INT, a Fumble Rec, 2 sacks and 5 TFL and made Clemson 1 dimensional as they ran for only 44 yards.
We have seen people say that Day is 17-8 vs ranked teams and no doubt that is good for 68%. Urban was 24-5 or 83%. Day is 10-8 vs the top 10 or 56%, Urban was 13-4 or 76%
The worrying trend is the recent results. Day started off 5-1 vs the top 10 with the only loss being Clemson in 2019. Since the Bama loss in 2020 though he is 5-7 since Losses to Bama, UM 3 times, UGA, MIzzou and now Oregon,,, and 3 in a row. The 5 wins have been ND twice, PSU, MSU and Utah,,,and except for the MSU blowout, the other 4 wins are by 3, 11, 3, and 8 points.
If there is a disconnect between Johnson and Knowles (which multiple OSU beat writers have stated for all different sites) then it is up to Ryan Day to fix it.
If Day and Knowles are kowtowing to Johnson and letting him freelance because he is stubborn and refuses to be a team player and does what he wants at the detriment of the entire defense, then it needs to be taken care of immediately (and already should have).
Johnson is not irreplaceable. He is the elephant in the room according to Biddle, Landis, Ward, Birm and Lesmerises.
Which is why I really want someone like Fulton to do a longer form video showing three things:
This is what Knowles scheme is supposed to look like when he was at OkSU
This is what a LJ DL does well
This is the combination of both, here is LJ's influence not working, here is Knowles influence not working
and then just let everyone come to our own conclusions because I doubt it's just one or the other openly defying the other. That doesn't make any sense. To me it looks like they're trying to work but it's a bad fit for whatever reason.
While culprit and specifics are certainly open to debate, and reasonable minds can draw different conclusions from the same set of facts, this much seems to be a given.
then it needs to be taken care of immediately (and already should have)
It's just same shit different Day. He has no head coaching experience. They play soft, and now they're meh in terms of toughness. Took him 4 years to fix that. Day hired Combs, and then Combs ran a defense only Day was familiar with. That got memory holed. Oh and now he is handcuffing his DC with his DL coach bc of course he is.
Some of this seems to be what others have touched on that Day seems to view it as: OSU has NFL players, NFL players need to win their one on ones. Here is the problem - Oregon has two future NFL starting tackles. NFL tackles don't give up many sacks. There seems to be no regard for talent level of the opponent.
Contrast this with UGA and Kirby Smart - is anyone on earth going to say that UGA has a defensive front short on talent in 2022? No. It was and is chock full of future pros. Did UGA get much pressure on CJ when they went with their base 4 man rush? NO, because Paris Johnson and Dawand Jones are PROS and Wypler played like an NFL starter to the point he left early.
What did UGA do? Shrug their shoulders and say "well we gotta win one on ones".. $#@! no. Kirby said "we HAVE to get to CJ Stroud or he will kill us", so when the chips were down on the final drive, they were going man free.
I'm not advocating playing cover 0 the whole game like Knowles tried in 2022 against Michigan, neither did UGA in 2022. But when the game was absolutely in the balance and they could not give up 5 yards, the last thing they were going to do was send 4-5 and hope CJ missed a throw. OSU seems to be lacking in the ability to adapt and throw major curve balls defensively or know when to do it.
Lanning is an SEC guy - they are going to bring that mindset and use every loophole and trick to win, every year.
Very well-said. Expectations against great offenses need to be tempered but the staff has to do a better job of adjusting and being less predictable, especially in the 4th quarter.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I am just flabbergasted by this entire thing. I feel like we are back to square one all over again and its really unbelievable. I honestly don't think Knowles OR LJ are the guys to get this done. We went out and got the best safety in the country and thought it would put us over the top finally and we actually look worse or just the same as before. I am at a loss here.
Imagine if we didn’t bring in Downs. On one of THE podcast episodes might have been the one with Zach Boren on Monday morning, there was a statement that Downs saved the defense many times against Oregon.
I am at a point where I no longer trust Larry and Jim to get this defense playing how they should be. The definition of insanity is expecting vastly different results with the same coaches and personnel.
If I am Ryan, I put the staff on notice: We lose to Penn State or don't get into Indy, you all need to start updating your resumes.
Something has to give especially after this loss. It’s obvious there’s a disconnect between Knowles and Johnson. This has been going on for far too long. Day is the CEO and he needs to pull up his big boy pants and tell them this is what he wants. Because if he wants a national championship, his defense needs to improve greatly.
Watching Fulton explain all of the things being done incorrectly is fascinating. Seems like disconnects at every point...scheme isn't complex and is easy to plan against, players not using/knowing correct technique, players not understanding their roles. This isn't even accounting for the physical mistakes such as missed tackles or biting on double moves.
If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!
Username doesn't check out. He's been here for 3 years. Knowles cannot stop offenses that have speed, talent and physicality and Larry cannot get the DL to pressure the QB. I don't really see a future for either of them beyond this year, unless we go on another magical 2014 run, which is unlikely because we also have a new left tackle.
Missouri had all three. Penn State & Michigan last year had the physicality.
Knowles will be fine. Don’t be an idiot just because Ohio State lost a game, it happens.
Ohio State has the 2nd best odds to win the national championship, just slightly behind Texas. Only a special person thinks it would take a magical run to win a national championship.
Just because I accept Knowles for what he is doesn't make me an idiot. We have not forced a 4th quarter punt against an elite team the entire time he's been here. That's a lot of rope we've already given him. Hey, if that's acceptable to you and you think that will magically change, then fine. Knowles makes more money in 1 year than 95% of the country makes in an entire lifetime. If our defense gets embarrassed again and we lose to Penn State, don't be surprised if the board of trustees or power brokers get involved. Larry and Knowles are definitely being evaluated. We went all in with this team, so there is no excuse.
Since you brought up Texas, their offense would be an utter nightmare for this defense. Also, you really shouldn't be paying attention to what oddsmakers say. They don't mean anything. It's only a way for Vegas to make money off degenerates. Nothing that happens outside of the lines matters. Games are played on the field and repped in practices.
A lot can be gained from Vegas odds. Like the fact that even after the Oregon loss, and even after the loss of Josh Simmons, at least in Vegas’ eyes, only Texas is better.
My point is, Vegas analytics have no dog in the fight and no emotional attachment to any team, so that should help calm any fears that Ohio State all of a sudden is a different team than they were 10/12 at 7:29pm.
But, they are a different team. Did you forget that we have to replace our All-American level left tackle? Penn State has two stud edge rushers that will give our tackles big problems.
I never said that we WILL lose to Penn State, I said that we could. I'm concerned about Will's protection from our tackles. I'm concerned about Penn State's crowd noise that will cause penalties. I'm concerned that Penn State's OC is really good. I'm concerned that Tyler Warren will give this defense problems.
Texas could very well lose to Georgia. That should be a great game. But what I'm saying is that Quinn Ewers, Texas blazing fast WRs and their excellent TE is a bad matchup for this defense.
1. Apologies, you spout enough of the sky is falling drivel I just assumed you said PSU would win if not in this thread then in another.
2. All good offenses are bad matchups for defenses. We have a really good offense too that will be a problem for any team. Defense blew against Oregon however it doesn't need to the 85 Bears to win. Better execution and playing their assignments gets them to a competent enough level to just be good enough with this offense.
I have zero complaints or worries about the offense at all, except for our left tackle situation. Our defense will be the difference between us reaching our goals or failing. It's really that simple. Based on what I've seen from Knowles and Larry for years, you would have to be sucking down some spiked Kool-Aid to assume they'll just figure it out with the same underperforming personnel. Like it or not, our DL has underperformed in rushing the passer for the last 3 years. JT against Penn State in 2022 and 2023 were the outliers, but that's just it, they're just outliers. We actually may need that again from JT in HV. Good, great or even elite offenses won't fear our DL. Oregon sure as hell didn't. Don't dismiss the possibility that Knowles and Larry are not on the same page, and maybe, JUST maybe, our DL is not that good.
You're missing the point. Good offenses don't fear any defense anymore. They just have to execute better. It's better the warts are being exposed in week 6 then in the last week of the season. There's actually time to work on the deficiencies in actual games then just bowl practice.
That is baked into Vegas’ analytics and they still think Ohio State has the 2nd best chances of winning a national championship.
Keep in mind, every time Ohio state plays from here on out will also be dealing with injuries. Ohio State is still remarkably healthy, all things considered.
With respect, you're definitely NOT a BuckeyeRealist, you're a Buckeye Homer, and that's perfectly OK. I trust my eyes instead of caring what a bunch of Vegas nerds are postulating. I've seen all I've needed to see the last 3 years with Knowles running this defense and Larry with the pass rush.
Those Vegas nerds are very good at what they do. Not 100% perfect (no one is) but they’re the best in the business precisely because to them it is a business.
Let me ask….how many other teams do you watch aside from Ohio State? Well Vegas watches every single one and breaks down their performances from a statistical/analytical perspective.
Point being, yes Ohio State has some issues. Every single other team has issues too.
One, offenses have the advantage in the present state of football. The rules favor the offense, and even good defenses get gashed (see the 2022 Peach Bowl where OSU gave it to Georgia's generationally good defense). Even good defenses get beat.
Two, Denzel Burke has been keying on the short pass for two years. Lots of WRs have gotten behind him, but very few have been able to make him pay (most commonly due to a poorly delivered ball). Oregon is good enough at QB and WR to make him pay.
Three, Sawyer and Tuimoloau are not good pass rushers. It's pretty danged obvious at this point. Doesn't mean they're bad players, but they are two strongside ends that play the run better than the pass. Why they can't slide down to DT or sub out for Curry at times?
Four, Larry should have been shown the door last offseason. They know something needs to change (and they clearly pursued others, like Jason Taylor, and even brought Brandon Jordan in for a hot minute). But given the bad 2024 DL recruiting class, it was time to rip the bandaid off. Do it this offseason. Give him a sinecure, make him feel valued and loved, but move him out of the program.
I'm not saying Ohio State & LJ should or should not part ways, but it has always felt to me like his defensive philosophy has not & does not mesh with Jim Knowle's philosophy. If Ohio State does decide to part ways with LJ, they should let JK has a huge say in who they bring in.
Why they can't slide down to DT or sub out for Curry at times?
That's because Curry and KJ and lined up inside. I get they're trying to use quickness to beat IOL but a stunt/twist/blitz would work so much better with that personnel package.
I think 2 is overlooked for sure. Even on that deep TD, Burke recovered enough that if Gabriel didn't make a perfect pass he would have had a chance to break it up. Have to give Oregon some credit there. Gabriel played a great game.
BuckIQ broke down a 3rd & 6 from late in the game where Knowles makes a perfect call that fails because the DL is doing its own thing and JT shoots the gap Downs is supposed to be blitzing through. If JT does his job, the backers have an easy stop. But he does some idiotic spin move right into Caleb’s path.
Knowles is not the guy, IMO. The defense will always be good but never great. Don't throw stats at me. Greatness is defined by coming up big in big games. The 2002-03 defense was solid all year but stopped an incredible Miami offense very few thought could be beat in the Championship game. The 2014-15 team gave up a lot of points but was able to get it done when it mattered. Knowles doesn't run that kind of defense. He has guessed wrong with his calls so many times in critical situations that it proves he is not the guy to win championships. We have the talent, we have the experience. The DC was the wrong choice. He will make adjustments and beat teams we are supposed to beat but I am very doubtful that we can beat teams when it really counts. Hope I am wrong.
I don’t see any reason to make any drastic changes 2022 were 1 point away from a natty, last year lost by 6 from potentially winning it all vs a cheating program then this year lose by 1 on the road vs #3 were fine
When is the last time the defense got a critical stop in the 4th quarter of a critical game? Georgia 2 years ago, Michigan last year, Oregon this year. That is off the top of my head. I don't even want to talk about Michigan 2 years ago. He doesn't have it.
Not sure if this is the most recent or not, but the punt forced on ND’s penultimate possession last year (really their final possession considering they only got the ball back again with 1 second remaining) comes to mind. They also forced a punt and made two 4th down stops in the 4th quarter of the Penn state game last year.
FWIW, related, Dave Biddle said on the radio yesterday that there is very real legs to the rumors we've been hearing of LJ and Knowles not at all being on the same page.
You can analyze everything but it really comes down to playmakers. Who in the defensive front 7 is a gamewrecker?
I can't even name you someone other than maybe Tyliek and Caleb who are above average for a program of this stature. In my opinion the top level talent is overrated or on the bench (Mathews, Curry, Reese, Powers)
Jermaine Mathews is going to have a 10 year NFL career and he barely sees the field as a sophomore. It's absurd.
It's true. More often than not, it all comes down to playmakers or gamewreckers. Make. A. Play. What's an example of that? JT against Penn State in 2022. He WRECKED and won that game for us, other than CJ and Marv eviscerating them through the air. Since then, we have not seen any of that on defense in our biggest games. No pick 6's, no sack fumbles, no key stops on 3rd downs. No forcing punts in the 4th quarter is embarrassing, and you can't spin that. No momentum-turning, back-breaking plays when we need them the most. I see us missing tackles, missing assignments, getting out-schemed, getting dominated on the LOS, getting burnt over the top. I can't ignore it, as it's systemic now.
It drives me crazy when people say, "Oh, they'll figure it out" or "We just need better execution." When you've seen no changes in the biggest games for multiple seasons from the same coaches and players, you're simply drunk off of hopium and homerism.
People dismiss the possibility that maybe some of our guys are just maxed out and/or poorly coached.
It's simple. Make a play. Put that player in a position to make a play. Or step aside. If someone is a liability, you PULL him and put someone else in there. Nobody is immune to criticism. Everyone is handsomely compensated now, and like it or not, that's the way of the sport now. I'm so sick and tired of losing these big games, man. I'm not asking for perfection, I'm asking for a veteran, talented team to play to their potential, and our generational wealth making coaches to do their jobs and not get de-pantsed.
Watch The Podcast's Buck IQ with Zach Boren if you want to be sick to your stomach. I'm usually an optimist but I don't see how they get this fixed in season. You have a DL that appears to be in its own world/playing a different scheme than the rest of the team. You have a coach that is calling plays that make zero sense situationally. You have poor execution and players who have been in the system for 3-4 years who don't understand their responsibilities. How do you fix all that on a bye week or mid-season?
You demote the defensive line coach like Day did with Kerry Coombs, give Knowles his defense back, and hope CJ Hicks and Mitchell Melton can mesh with the rest of the defense in time to beat PSU and TTUN. Ryan Day is gonna have to get his hands dirty if he wants to salvage this season. Problem is, he holds people he has a close friendship with to different (and often lower) standards than people who were hired strictly on merit. Why do we think Day is gonna get off his ass and piss off Larry? He's shown he doesn't have the stomach to do that and even said Oregon "wasn't a wake up call" for them. Day won't do shit about it and then try to scapegoat LJ at the end of the season to save himself if/when the Buckeyes fail to meet their goals again. It's Day's M.O. Winners win, losers make excuses. LJ will be Day's excuse this year
I wouldn’t listen to what Zach Boren says at all. Every time I watch his BuckIQ then watch other film guys he says stuff that directly contradicts what everyone else is saying. Like in his Marshall one he kept bitching about the LBs not playing downhill and attack the QB on QB runs… when immediately behind the LB is a WR running a quick hitch to the LB’s zone and the QB is making a read on the play
I commend you for doing the work, but I don't think any of us really needs to spend too much time dragging our disappointed asses over the charred, burning coals that remain of that performance.
I, instead, feel like you can sum up this entire performance by pointing to one player... Denzel Burke... dude just did not leave the team hotel for this game, and I think that his performance is the microcosmic example of the bigger problem as far as the defense just not showing up when they needed too.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
It's not all bad. Putting up nearly 500 yards of offense against Oregon is not a charred performance. We learned from this game that our offense appears to be legit. The defense is a question mark at this point. The only conclusion we can draw from this game regarding the defense is that they are either far from a championship-caliber unit or they just had a very bad day - or something is wrong with how the defense is being coached. Or some combination of all these three. It will take more games to figure out what we really have with the defense. The game with PSU will tell us much more. If they put up a similar performance against PSU, then it's time to panic.
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Knowles got schooled and these veteran players are still confused on what we’re trying to do…in year three. Not a good combination in my opinion. And the refusal to do any twists or stunts with the D line is baffling.
Michael
I think Ross showed it was not entirely Knowles getting schooled. We can't tell if execution is a failure on game day or bad prep by coaches. The 50 yard TD was a combination of DL not executing the sim pressure and occupying the blockers and Burke gambling that the QB is going to have to get the ball out quick so bites on the first move. If Hamilton touches the guard for half a second and Styles runs at 4.4 speed through Gabriel's chest instead of getting redirected maybe that play looks a lot different.
I think Ross's side comment about going vanilla week 1-3 may give some clues. These guys had no game reps this year on these pressure looks against a spread team. Iowa doesn't present these types of conflicts.
The best news is these are all quality veteran players that can clean up their execution and we can self scout and put guys in some better positions.
Exactly. That first play Burke got beat, he is assuming the QB won’t have 10 seconds to throw the deep ball because we were supposed to be bringing pressure. Doesn’t totally excuse getting beat but it’s not nearly the bad play for him that people have been saying.
Buckeyes…Beets... Battlestar Galactica.
Yea, in other concepts if you have Ransom as like a robber over the middle instead of faking a blitz and dropping shallow then Burke is only worried about out breaking routes. It all fits together like you said.
It’s still a bad play by him. The ball was not held for an insane amount of time. It was still under 3 seconds time to throw and he is immediately beaten on the break of the route.
That's because Knowles and Johnson have different philosophies... there was an article this week on it.
The truth is in the details...
You can dial up the best play, but if your "All American" DB decides he's going to let the WR run right by him.... it doesn't matter.
Buckeye til I die
Yeah I mean I feel like something is up behind the scenes because there is no reason with these veteran guys and great guys we have that we should have that rough of a performance so hopefully we live and learn and get better from it
DH7 was Special R.I.P Simba
Defense has to start attacking offenses so they can get off the field and save their energy. Not like whatever they were doing to start the Marshall game just sitting back and playing passive and hoping the other team makes a mistake.
It’s been a decade since we’ve seen an OSU defense attack. Feel we have been in passive react mode forever. Hafley left too soon. Chris Ash, maybe?
We brought in Knowles to fix these issues, and we are still having them in year 3. That is not a good sign. Something is amiss on that side of the ball for sure, and it does not bode well for the rest of this season.
Watch back the 50 yard TD analysis. That sim pressure is an attack, you are bringing 6 vs 5 blockers but then late dropping DL to try to disrupt hot routes. The DL didn't execute so Styles didn't get a clean sack opportunity and Burke bites on the route. It was an aggressive call meant to force a sack or hot throw into a wash of underneath defenders but the players have to do their jobs and Oregon just had better reps on some of these big plays.
D5K - 100%, and thank you for pointing that out.
I keep seeing this, but it looks like the receiver just runs right by him, not some double move like one of the previous times Burke got beat deep.
He steps wide then takes a fake step across Burke's stance as if he is running a post or dig which wrong footed Burke and then ran wide around him. He didn't just fall asleep. It was a good route and Burke knew he didn't have help inside or over the top which contributes to the conflict he was in.
Asking defensive backs to be responsible for B gaps in the run game is a recipe for disaster. You need the DL or LBs responsible for A&B gaps, with almost zero exceptions. The smaller DBs need the room they have with C gap responsibility to outmaneuver the OL blocks.
Having DBs leave their run game responsibilities with no other player filling in has got to be a blown assignment! And we need to use more 4-3 when teams are having consistent run game success or that rely predominantly on the run game (like Michigan). Note in the player participation that neither Reese or Hicks were basically not used (4 plays total).
umhater
Jim was able to get away with this in the Big 12, but it does not work against other elite teams.
In the Big 12 he played a lot of offenses like Oregon's and did very well. He also had hybrid DL/LB players that can confuse blocking schemes by moving around and beefy DTs that can gain a gap against the run. But nothing I saw on this film study can't be corrected except maybe Cody Simon in coverage and JT being vulnerable to zone read plays.
I thought Knowles would do a decent job. He is a little better than Coombs and Barnes, but not by much. His 4th quarter stats are almost impossibility bad.
Robert M
The more video I watch, the more this is almost entirely a defensive line issue to me. Too predictable, lined up too wide. No diversity in post-snap movement. Releasing straight into coverage rather than occupying the defender first is a clear coaching directive because they're all doing it regardless of who is in the game.
I don't care how bad Denzel Burke looked, no corner is locking down Evan Stewart for seven seconds. It's not happening. The blitzers are firing into the correct gaps. They're doing it quickly and with intent. There's just no hole for them to shoot through because the defensive line is not doing its job.
This is just careless, reckless defensive line coaching and I think the issues we see with Knowles are primarily a guy pulling out what little hair he has left trying to figure out how to accomplish what needs done while only controlling 7 players on the field.
Johnson is either very washed up or purposely hurting the team. I don't think there's really any other way to look at it. Either way it's on Ryan Day that it continues to be allowed to persist.
Yep. The fact that the only rusher that played the long pass correctly and engaged the blocker was Ransom is pretty damning.
Completely agree. Watching the various film studies have been very sobering, unfortunately. I had a feeling the d-line was the problem last year and would be this year, but I was hoping they would improve.
I would still rather my school and team have these problems than the ones Ann Arbor is going to have by the end of the year though. So there's that.
"The minute I think I'm getting mellow, I'm retiring. Who ever heard of a mellow winner?" - WWH
PREACH
Make ❌ichigan our Bichigan
Larry Johnson needs to go after the year.
He needs to be told now that Knowles is going to control personnel and tactics on the line and if Johnson doesn’t like it, he can just leave now and let LaAllan Clark coach the DL the rest of the year.
We have a golden opportunity this year and we shouldn’t be pissing it away because some old man wants to act like a child.
Well, that was said last year by some folks too. Then he landed Eddrick Houston and all was forgiven. Smh........
I think LJ's recruiting prowess is definitely a factor in the development of this situation.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
I think he has earned the right to still be an advisor and mentor.
You could keep him teaching techniques but in terms of the schemes used that needs to be in the hands of the DC.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Would you continue to do that for about 1/10 of your current salary? The entire world knows that this isn’t an option. It’s only brought up by fans that don’t want to lose LJ but also don’t want to keep him for some reason. Can’t have it both ways but keep in mind, the ONLY reason Jahkeem Stewart and Malik Autry are considering OSU is to play for LJ.
No he doesn't. What he did 10 years ago hasn't earned him a pity job as an advisor in 2025 after beefing with everyone around him who disagreed with him for the last 5 years. Ryan Day got us in this mess by rewarding nostalgia and letting guys like LJ live off of past glory and reputation. The techniques Larry teaches don't even work anymore! Why should we keep a washed up, toxic, over the hill defensive line coach that teaches obsolete techniques just because he inherited Joey Bosa 10 years ago? We need to rip the bandaid off LJ once and for all. Larry has pissed away any good will he had left by being this stubborn and selfish. He needs to be treated like it.
Sadly, this is right. Beyond the stubbornness, JT and Jack simply have not reached the ceilings we expected, and nobody else has come in at DE and flashed like a superstar, either. JT and Jack are really good players who will be drafted, but they were 5 stars and they have never (not even Jack when he got rolling last year) played like 5 stars.
So, you have recruitment challenges when everyone can use his age against him. Scheme challenges because of seeming stubbornness. And player development issues where players are good, not great. It's time.
I'm concerned the defense is at its peak. A bunch of upper class players with multiple seasons in the system, you have to question is their room for growth or is this group as good as it's going to be.
Fraudbaugh
I worry about the entire team next season. The team will likely lose 15 starters (8 on defense and 7 on offense).
The Velvet Frog
OSU will still return a lot of talent but is likely gonna have to fill some holes via the portal
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I hope SCUM doesn't rush 40 times for 300 yards against us. That's the only way they can beat us.
Robert M
This is a frustrating watch. It's all just basic things that should be automatic at this point. Really hard to trust Knowles and staff. Just fundamental stuff.
Joel
Larry Johnson has to go man. He is a legend but at this point he is either offering nothing new or is just an active detriment to the team. Its becoming aggravating to watch this team constantly squander it's resources and fight an uphill battle that is entirely self inflicted. A defense full of veteran players in their 3rd year of a scheme should be able to be unleashed and we constantly get that line fed to us by coaches and the beat, so why is it never seen on the field?
I've seen a few random comments about LJ & Knowles butting heads across the board recently. Is there a story i've missed somewhere?
Yes. Quick summary LJ insists on a 4 man DL and apparently Day lets him get away with it thereby handcuffing Knowles.
Bobcat66
No there isn’t. It’s message board people making something up cause they don’t understand that our personnel doesn’t fit what Knowles did at Ok State. We tried to system in 2022 but we didn’t have a hybrid guy to play the Jack and we still don’t except maybe Sonny
What are you talking about!? CJ Hicks and Arvell Reese exist on this roster. Knowles even approached Sawyer early on to be a JACK because he has the skillset to do it, but LJ wouldn't let it happen. There are multiple guys on this roster with the chops to play Knowles JACK position, but the Associate Head Coach seems hell-bent on not allowing it to come to fruition.
Love you more, JW. 1/16/71-9/23/12
Sawyer tried it and it failed. He can survive as a standup rusher but the Jack is so much more than rushing from a two point stance. Styles/Hick/Reese are probably the guys athletic enough to do both, but none of them have a complete skillset for the Jack yet.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
513, get some facts before saying dumb shit.
Yall need to stop with CJ. He is a bad player. He got his chance and was awful. Arvell yes but he moved to LB in the spring. They’re not gonna design a scheme around a player with zero time in the position
In a few weeks, we are going to find out what this team is made of. Day has yet to face a true White Out game. Playing in an empty Beaver Stadium during Covid doesn't count.. PSU is a good football team. I was impressed how they came back and won a gutsy game at USC last week. Their new offensive coordinator has done a world of good for that team. They will be locked and loaded to get past their OSU curse.
I'm pretty certain that game is a BIG NOON game.
Our Honor Defend we will Fight to the end for O-HI-O!
they played there in 2022?
Not a white out game. Their white out game is Washington this year
I don’t know what to put here
This is not a Larry Johnson issue. He wants the DL to play aggressively rush the passer and create havoc. This is what Knowles wants - cage rush and tie up the OL - it’s a terrible scheme and it’s exposed against good throwing QBs and good WRs our DBs have equall talent with.
This is not new and it’s not an LJ issue
Our DL hasn’t been able to get pressure since our greatest D-Lineman ever left. Five years ago. There’s been plenty of talent that’s come and gone since then. Across multiple D Coordinators.
Larry's inability to get 4 seniors on this DL to collapse the pocket and rush the passer is a huge problem. I have no idea what you've been watching.
They are doing exactly what they are being told to do. It’s clear they aren’t getting pressure because that is the schemE Knowles wants
Knowles defenses generated tons of pressure with Ok State talent
I remember fans being upset in Knowles 1st season for being overly aggressive and leaving the CBs on an island.
The Velvet Frog
So, there's only a problem with the coaches and players. No biggie.
LJ is known for DE’s pinning their ears back and getting sacks. The last couple years have seen the DE’s getting less sacks and the term “cage rush” used a lot, which is the DL not pinning their ears back and holding their ground or just bull rushing straight at the OL to collectively squeeze the pocket. THAT is LJ changing his preferred style to fit in with the scheme. That’s proof that they are working together or atleast proof that LJ is doing what he’s told. The REASON Knowles isn’t using a JACK is there isn’t one on the roster. That’s why they were recruiting Justin hill and selling him on coming here to play the JACK. They need JACK players to play the JACK. Or listen to Biddle….
This is a great take based on what we *know*. Knowles' vision of DL is very different from how Johnson has done things all his career. Here is an excerpt from The Athletic from September 2022.
To Johnson's credit, he did change his philosophy in the first year of Knowles's arrival. The more I read about this topic, the more I convince myself that Johnson is not trying to hinder Knowles; he is trying his best to teach something that is not in his wheelhouse. Now, they keep making each other look bad on national TV. It's just a bad pairing.
If going forward we see the DE’s using spin moves and lots of stunts, fans will think it’s LJ listening to Knowles, when in reality it would be them letting LJ cook. I want to see the JACK but only when we actually have one that can do it.
Here’s a breakdown on Knowles before Ohio State.
http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2022/09/jim-knowles-coaching-primer-part-1.html?m=1
I was just hoping after Knowles being here for multiple years and a veteran defense we would be less vanilla. It always seems like there is confusion when offensive players go in motion. Something is off and I think it's fair to look at the coaching staff first.
Sevo1
I was surprised by the lackluster performance against Oregon. But what really surprised me was the ho-hum performance of some of the top players. That's what disturbed me more. When Burke kept blowing coverage in spectacular fashion, I was at a loss for words. He never played that bad. Nobody is perfect and some players have bad days. But given that this was the biggest game on the regular season calendar, I was not expecting this level of play from the Defense.
BubbaGumps
Yards allowed and frankly even points allowed do not tell the entire story for a defense.
Examples:
last Saturday we allowed 32 points. in 2014 we allowed 35 to Bama. The Difference? The OSU defense picked off 3 passes, including a pick 6 and got 3 sacks, ie big defensive plays.
Clemson in 2020 we allowed 28 points (only 4 fewer than Oregon got), and over 400 passing yards. but had an INT, a Fumble Rec, 2 sacks and 5 TFL and made Clemson 1 dimensional as they ran for only 44 yards.
We have seen people say that Day is 17-8 vs ranked teams and no doubt that is good for 68%. Urban was 24-5 or 83%. Day is 10-8 vs the top 10 or 56%, Urban was 13-4 or 76%
The worrying trend is the recent results. Day started off 5-1 vs the top 10 with the only loss being Clemson in 2019. Since the Bama loss in 2020 though he is 5-7 since Losses to Bama, UM 3 times, UGA, MIzzou and now Oregon,,, and 3 in a row. The 5 wins have been ND twice, PSU, MSU and Utah,,,and except for the MSU blowout, the other 4 wins are by 3, 11, 3, and 8 points.
D was just awful at times, and it is obvious Ross was being kind and did not want to piss off the staff.
Is Ross credentialed? Either way, he has no reason to believe he'd face any repercussions from OSU for breaking down film.
If there is a disconnect between Johnson and Knowles (which multiple OSU beat writers have stated for all different sites) then it is up to Ryan Day to fix it.
If Day and Knowles are kowtowing to Johnson and letting him freelance because he is stubborn and refuses to be a team player and does what he wants at the detriment of the entire defense, then it needs to be taken care of immediately (and already should have).
Johnson is not irreplaceable. He is the elephant in the room according to Biddle, Landis, Ward, Birm and Lesmerises.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Which is why I really want someone like Fulton to do a longer form video showing three things:
and then just let everyone come to our own conclusions because I doubt it's just one or the other openly defying the other. That doesn't make any sense. To me it looks like they're trying to work but it's a bad fit for whatever reason.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
While culprit and specifics are certainly open to debate, and reasonable minds can draw different conclusions from the same set of facts, this much seems to be a given.
It always seems impossible until it’s done
It's just same shit different Day. He has no head coaching experience. They play soft, and now they're meh in terms of toughness. Took him 4 years to fix that. Day hired Combs, and then Combs ran a defense only Day was familiar with. That got memory holed. Oh and now he is handcuffing his DC with his DL coach bc of course he is.
He doesn't have a championship in him.
Some of this seems to be what others have touched on that Day seems to view it as: OSU has NFL players, NFL players need to win their one on ones. Here is the problem - Oregon has two future NFL starting tackles. NFL tackles don't give up many sacks. There seems to be no regard for talent level of the opponent.
Contrast this with UGA and Kirby Smart - is anyone on earth going to say that UGA has a defensive front short on talent in 2022? No. It was and is chock full of future pros. Did UGA get much pressure on CJ when they went with their base 4 man rush? NO, because Paris Johnson and Dawand Jones are PROS and Wypler played like an NFL starter to the point he left early.
What did UGA do? Shrug their shoulders and say "well we gotta win one on ones".. $#@! no. Kirby said "we HAVE to get to CJ Stroud or he will kill us", so when the chips were down on the final drive, they were going man free.
I'm not advocating playing cover 0 the whole game like Knowles tried in 2022 against Michigan, neither did UGA in 2022. But when the game was absolutely in the balance and they could not give up 5 yards, the last thing they were going to do was send 4-5 and hope CJ missed a throw. OSU seems to be lacking in the ability to adapt and throw major curve balls defensively or know when to do it.
Lanning is an SEC guy - they are going to bring that mindset and use every loophole and trick to win, every year.
Very well-said. Expectations against great offenses need to be tempered but the staff has to do a better job of adjusting and being less predictable, especially in the 4th quarter.
"In weightlifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you."
-Jack Handey
I am just flabbergasted by this entire thing. I feel like we are back to square one all over again and its really unbelievable. I honestly don't think Knowles OR LJ are the guys to get this done. We went out and got the best safety in the country and thought it would put us over the top finally and we actually look worse or just the same as before. I am at a loss here.
Imagine if we didn’t bring in Downs. On one of THE podcast episodes might have been the one with Zach Boren on Monday morning, there was a statement that Downs saved the defense many times against Oregon.
TBDBFIT
I am at a point where I no longer trust Larry and Jim to get this defense playing how they should be. The definition of insanity is expecting vastly different results with the same coaches and personnel.
If I am Ryan, I put the staff on notice: We lose to Penn State or don't get into Indy, you all need to start updating your resumes.
By staff, I mean any coach on defense whose units are a liability that contribute to another loss.
Something has to give especially after this loss. It’s obvious there’s a disconnect between Knowles and Johnson. This has been going on for far too long. Day is the CEO and he needs to pull up his big boy pants and tell them this is what he wants. Because if he wants a national championship, his defense needs to improve greatly.
Watching Fulton explain all of the things being done incorrectly is fascinating. Seems like disconnects at every point...scheme isn't complex and is easy to plan against, players not using/knowing correct technique, players not understanding their roles. This isn't even accounting for the physical mistakes such as missed tackles or biting on double moves.
If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!
Man Fulton is pretty brutal to listen to. He has a terrible time getting to the point. That video could have been about 10 minutes shorter.
Knowles will get it corrected. I’m excited to see his adjustments against Nebraska and Penn State
Username doesn't check out. He's been here for 3 years. Knowles cannot stop offenses that have speed, talent and physicality and Larry cannot get the DL to pressure the QB. I don't really see a future for either of them beyond this year, unless we go on another magical 2014 run, which is unlikely because we also have a new left tackle.
Missouri had all three. Penn State & Michigan last year had the physicality.
Knowles will be fine. Don’t be an idiot just because Ohio State lost a game, it happens.
Ohio State has the 2nd best odds to win the national championship, just slightly behind Texas. Only a special person thinks it would take a magical run to win a national championship.
Just because I accept Knowles for what he is doesn't make me an idiot. We have not forced a 4th quarter punt against an elite team the entire time he's been here. That's a lot of rope we've already given him. Hey, if that's acceptable to you and you think that will magically change, then fine. Knowles makes more money in 1 year than 95% of the country makes in an entire lifetime. If our defense gets embarrassed again and we lose to Penn State, don't be surprised if the board of trustees or power brokers get involved. Larry and Knowles are definitely being evaluated. We went all in with this team, so there is no excuse.
Since you brought up Texas, their offense would be an utter nightmare for this defense. Also, you really shouldn't be paying attention to what oddsmakers say. They don't mean anything. It's only a way for Vegas to make money off degenerates. Nothing that happens outside of the lines matters. Games are played on the field and repped in practices.
A lot can be gained from Vegas odds. Like the fact that even after the Oregon loss, and even after the loss of Josh Simmons, at least in Vegas’ eyes, only Texas is better.
My point is, Vegas analytics have no dog in the fight and no emotional attachment to any team, so that should help calm any fears that Ohio State all of a sudden is a different team than they were 10/12 at 7:29pm.
But, they are a different team. Did you forget that we have to replace our All-American level left tackle? Penn State has two stud edge rushers that will give our tackles big problems.
And did you forget it's a James Franklin PSU that also had to pull a rabbit out of it's hat to beat a very mediocre USC with a much worse defense?
Texas also hasn't played anyone. Let's see what they do against UGA before we get antsy in the ole pantsy crowning their asses in week 6.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I never said that we WILL lose to Penn State, I said that we could. I'm concerned about Will's protection from our tackles. I'm concerned about Penn State's crowd noise that will cause penalties. I'm concerned that Penn State's OC is really good. I'm concerned that Tyler Warren will give this defense problems.
Texas could very well lose to Georgia. That should be a great game. But what I'm saying is that Quinn Ewers, Texas blazing fast WRs and their excellent TE is a bad matchup for this defense.
1. Apologies, you spout enough of the sky is falling drivel I just assumed you said PSU would win if not in this thread then in another.
2. All good offenses are bad matchups for defenses. We have a really good offense too that will be a problem for any team. Defense blew against Oregon however it doesn't need to the 85 Bears to win. Better execution and playing their assignments gets them to a competent enough level to just be good enough with this offense.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I have zero complaints or worries about the offense at all, except for our left tackle situation. Our defense will be the difference between us reaching our goals or failing. It's really that simple. Based on what I've seen from Knowles and Larry for years, you would have to be sucking down some spiked Kool-Aid to assume they'll just figure it out with the same underperforming personnel. Like it or not, our DL has underperformed in rushing the passer for the last 3 years. JT against Penn State in 2022 and 2023 were the outliers, but that's just it, they're just outliers. We actually may need that again from JT in HV. Good, great or even elite offenses won't fear our DL. Oregon sure as hell didn't. Don't dismiss the possibility that Knowles and Larry are not on the same page, and maybe, JUST maybe, our DL is not that good.
You're missing the point. Good offenses don't fear any defense anymore. They just have to execute better. It's better the warts are being exposed in week 6 then in the last week of the season. There's actually time to work on the deficiencies in actual games then just bowl practice.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
That is baked into Vegas’ analytics and they still think Ohio State has the 2nd best chances of winning a national championship.
Keep in mind, every time Ohio state plays from here on out will also be dealing with injuries. Ohio State is still remarkably healthy, all things considered.
All American?
He was playing at an All-American level, yes. Losing him for the season was much, MUCH worse than losing the game.
With respect, you're definitely NOT a BuckeyeRealist, you're a Buckeye Homer, and that's perfectly OK. I trust my eyes instead of caring what a bunch of Vegas nerds are postulating. I've seen all I've needed to see the last 3 years with Knowles running this defense and Larry with the pass rush.
Those Vegas nerds are very good at what they do. Not 100% perfect (no one is) but they’re the best in the business precisely because to them it is a business.
Let me ask….how many other teams do you watch aside from Ohio State? Well Vegas watches every single one and breaks down their performances from a statistical/analytical perspective.
Point being, yes Ohio State has some issues. Every single other team has issues too.
A few things:
One, offenses have the advantage in the present state of football. The rules favor the offense, and even good defenses get gashed (see the 2022 Peach Bowl where OSU gave it to Georgia's generationally good defense). Even good defenses get beat.
Two, Denzel Burke has been keying on the short pass for two years. Lots of WRs have gotten behind him, but very few have been able to make him pay (most commonly due to a poorly delivered ball). Oregon is good enough at QB and WR to make him pay.
Three, Sawyer and Tuimoloau are not good pass rushers. It's pretty danged obvious at this point. Doesn't mean they're bad players, but they are two strongside ends that play the run better than the pass. Why they can't slide down to DT or sub out for Curry at times?
Four, Larry should have been shown the door last offseason. They know something needs to change (and they clearly pursued others, like Jason Taylor, and even brought Brandon Jordan in for a hot minute). But given the bad 2024 DL recruiting class, it was time to rip the bandaid off. Do it this offseason. Give him a sinecure, make him feel valued and loved, but move him out of the program.
I'm not saying Ohio State & LJ should or should not part ways, but it has always felt to me like his defensive philosophy has not & does not mesh with Jim Knowle's philosophy. If Ohio State does decide to part ways with LJ, they should let JK has a huge say in who they bring in.
That's because Curry and KJ and lined up inside. I get they're trying to use quickness to beat IOL but a stunt/twist/blitz would work so much better with that personnel package.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I think 2 is overlooked for sure. Even on that deep TD, Burke recovered enough that if Gabriel didn't make a perfect pass he would have had a chance to break it up. Have to give Oregon some credit there. Gabriel played a great game.
+1 for the use of befuddled.
BuckIQ broke down a 3rd & 6 from late in the game where Knowles makes a perfect call that fails because the DL is doing its own thing and JT shoots the gap Downs is supposed to be blitzing through. If JT does his job, the backers have an easy stop. But he does some idiotic spin move right into Caleb’s path.
JT has a bad habit of playing very undisciplined. Oregon killed him in the RPO.
Thanks, Turd!
Knowles is not the guy, IMO. The defense will always be good but never great. Don't throw stats at me. Greatness is defined by coming up big in big games. The 2002-03 defense was solid all year but stopped an incredible Miami offense very few thought could be beat in the Championship game. The 2014-15 team gave up a lot of points but was able to get it done when it mattered. Knowles doesn't run that kind of defense. He has guessed wrong with his calls so many times in critical situations that it proves he is not the guy to win championships. We have the talent, we have the experience. The DC was the wrong choice. He will make adjustments and beat teams we are supposed to beat but I am very doubtful that we can beat teams when it really counts. Hope I am wrong.
I don’t see any reason to make any drastic changes 2022 were 1 point away from a natty, last year lost by 6 from potentially winning it all vs a cheating program then this year lose by 1 on the road vs #3 were fine
When is the last time the defense got a critical stop in the 4th quarter of a critical game? Georgia 2 years ago, Michigan last year, Oregon this year. That is off the top of my head. I don't even want to talk about Michigan 2 years ago. He doesn't have it.
Not sure if this is the most recent or not, but the punt forced on ND’s penultimate possession last year (really their final possession considering they only got the ball back again with 1 second remaining) comes to mind. They also forced a punt and made two 4th down stops in the 4th quarter of the Penn state game last year.
It always seems impossible until it’s done
Oh, you mean the games when TCUN had our signs through cheating? Those games? Lol.
FWIW, related, Dave Biddle said on the radio yesterday that there is very real legs to the rumors we've been hearing of LJ and Knowles not at all being on the same page.
What it’s worth? Quoting Biddle? You owe me money. That’s what it’s worth lol
You can analyze everything but it really comes down to playmakers. Who in the defensive front 7 is a gamewrecker?
I can't even name you someone other than maybe Tyliek and Caleb who are above average for a program of this stature. In my opinion the top level talent is overrated or on the bench (Mathews, Curry, Reese, Powers)
Jermaine Mathews is going to have a 10 year NFL career and he barely sees the field as a sophomore. It's absurd.
Adam Meyers-White is inappropriate to write.
It's true. More often than not, it all comes down to playmakers or gamewreckers. Make. A. Play. What's an example of that? JT against Penn State in 2022. He WRECKED and won that game for us, other than CJ and Marv eviscerating them through the air. Since then, we have not seen any of that on defense in our biggest games. No pick 6's, no sack fumbles, no key stops on 3rd downs. No forcing punts in the 4th quarter is embarrassing, and you can't spin that. No momentum-turning, back-breaking plays when we need them the most. I see us missing tackles, missing assignments, getting out-schemed, getting dominated on the LOS, getting burnt over the top. I can't ignore it, as it's systemic now.
It drives me crazy when people say, "Oh, they'll figure it out" or "We just need better execution." When you've seen no changes in the biggest games for multiple seasons from the same coaches and players, you're simply drunk off of hopium and homerism.
People dismiss the possibility that maybe some of our guys are just maxed out and/or poorly coached.
It's simple. Make a play. Put that player in a position to make a play. Or step aside. If someone is a liability, you PULL him and put someone else in there. Nobody is immune to criticism. Everyone is handsomely compensated now, and like it or not, that's the way of the sport now. I'm so sick and tired of losing these big games, man. I'm not asking for perfection, I'm asking for a veteran, talented team to play to their potential, and our generational wealth making coaches to do their jobs and not get de-pantsed.
Question. What is Cody Simon doing at 20 minute mark?
bagger
I feel like whenever Cody misses a tackle, a huge play ensues.
Watch The Podcast's Buck IQ with Zach Boren if you want to be sick to your stomach. I'm usually an optimist but I don't see how they get this fixed in season. You have a DL that appears to be in its own world/playing a different scheme than the rest of the team. You have a coach that is calling plays that make zero sense situationally. You have poor execution and players who have been in the system for 3-4 years who don't understand their responsibilities. How do you fix all that on a bye week or mid-season?
You demote the defensive line coach like Day did with Kerry Coombs, give Knowles his defense back, and hope CJ Hicks and Mitchell Melton can mesh with the rest of the defense in time to beat PSU and TTUN. Ryan Day is gonna have to get his hands dirty if he wants to salvage this season. Problem is, he holds people he has a close friendship with to different (and often lower) standards than people who were hired strictly on merit. Why do we think Day is gonna get off his ass and piss off Larry? He's shown he doesn't have the stomach to do that and even said Oregon "wasn't a wake up call" for them. Day won't do shit about it and then try to scapegoat LJ at the end of the season to save himself if/when the Buckeyes fail to meet their goals again. It's Day's M.O. Winners win, losers make excuses. LJ will be Day's excuse this year
I wouldn’t listen to what Zach Boren says at all. Every time I watch his BuckIQ then watch other film guys he says stuff that directly contradicts what everyone else is saying. Like in his Marshall one he kept bitching about the LBs not playing downhill and attack the QB on QB runs… when immediately behind the LB is a WR running a quick hitch to the LB’s zone and the QB is making a read on the play
I commend you for doing the work, but I don't think any of us really needs to spend too much time dragging our disappointed asses over the charred, burning coals that remain of that performance.
I, instead, feel like you can sum up this entire performance by pointing to one player... Denzel Burke... dude just did not leave the team hotel for this game, and I think that his performance is the microcosmic example of the bigger problem as far as the defense just not showing up when they needed too.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
It's not all bad. Putting up nearly 500 yards of offense against Oregon is not a charred performance. We learned from this game that our offense appears to be legit. The defense is a question mark at this point. The only conclusion we can draw from this game regarding the defense is that they are either far from a championship-caliber unit or they just had a very bad day - or something is wrong with how the defense is being coached. Or some combination of all these three. It will take more games to figure out what we really have with the defense. The game with PSU will tell us much more. If they put up a similar performance against PSU, then it's time to panic.
BubbaGumps