It's worth asking since we CANNOT get pressure with our front four. No sacks, no hurries. When we blitzed we made their QB uncomfortable but Knowles clearly doesn't like blitzing. We need Sawyer and Tui to get there ... and it's not happening.
I hope you're not going off of PFF scores/grades. Their definition of a pressure is much too generous... we effectively had 2 legit pressures that game... only 2...
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
Saw that stat and laughed out loud. Gabriel requires a crow hop to throw deep balls and had space to do it all night. That stat is a joke. They must be counting Sawyer or JT pushing the tackle five yards behind a clean pocket bc he was not impacted by a pass rush more than twice I recall during the game.
Johnson is signed through 2026 so it won't be easy to make a change.
My take: LJ is an assistant coach who coaches the DL. Jim Knowles is his superior, as is Ryan Day. We need to do what most big programs are doing...go to three down lineman with a rover (Jack) to create a little havoc.
We put zero pressure on Gabriel last Saturday and that can't continue to happen. Whatever the coaching staff decides, it must include a scheme to pressure the opposing QB. Gabriel had all day to throw and any decent QB will rip a defense to shreds with that kind of time.
The problem with the "Knowles is his superior" line is that I believe Larry still has "Assistant Head Coach" in his email signature. That would indicate at the very least equals if not Larry being the superior. It never sat right with me that you'd make a position coach "Assistant Head Coach" and this would be why.
Larry Johnson is a POSITION COACH with a title. He is NOT an Equal to Knowles when it comes to the defense I can assure you there is absolutely no way that he would have come here if he wasn't the man in charge. If you recall Day called the hiring the HEAD COACH of the Defense. Knowles runs the defense, END OF STORY. If Larry Johnson is not doing what Knowles wants then Johnson needs to be IMMEDIATELY FIRED along with Ryan Day for allowing that in his Organization. EVERYONE HAS TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE, SINGING THE SAM SONG or you will not reach your goals ANYONE who has run an organization KNOWS THIS.
Larry was very literally hired as both the Assistant Head Coach and DL coach by Urban, that title changed to Associate Head Coach in 2019. LJ has the legacy of being a spectacular DL coach, to go along with 10+ years at Ohio State. So, while LJ is a position coach, he's an Associate Head Coach first. LJ and Tim Walton are both Assistant/Associate Head Coaches, while seemingly the same title, the Associate Head Coach is technically second in command.
I'm not sure another situation like this exists anywhere else in the football universe, let alone in college football. Yes, Day needs to take charge here, but because of the Associate Head Coach title, he has (allegedly) very little control over LJ having a job. Further exacerbating the issue is, by all accounts, LJ is loved by the players.
Your approach/solution is very simple and cut and dry...on the surface. But there's much more nuance to it. Unfortunately, I don't see an answer until one or both of LJ and Knowles is no longer on staff.
What do you mean it wont be easy? Day sits down with Knowles and Johnson and if there isnt 100% agreement on who is in charge of the Defense then Johnson is fired. Knowles is in charge PERIOD. Day hired knowels calling him the HEAD COACH of the Defense that means Knowles boss is Day the rest of the defensive staff is subordinate to Knowles if there is any incongruity there we will lose more games.
This is FUNDAMENTALS for a coaching staff I REFUSE to buy into the notion that Day doesn't have a CLEAR hierarchy. Johnson has been at OSU for a long time now lets not pretend this silly idea has any truth. Ive met Larry and Ive heard stuff about what kind of man he is from people who have access to the staff and the woody. This who narrative is counter to everything Ive been told and what he teaches about how to be a man. I dont by it.... I think they were TERRIFIED of Gabriels legs wanted to contain rush and couldn't get pressure with the front they should have run some stunts and sent sonny or CJ on blitz's or they could have sent Caleb.... the thing is they were convinced (WRONGLY) that the secondary could cover with no pressure. Burke gambles and always has you may recall he got benched two years ago during the ND game because he got torched... he bites on fakes and can be exploited with that and that is what they did. The OC saw that on film and attacked him
Their grades are so bad lately... they said Howard, who was running for his life after we lost two starters only got pressured 25% of the time, and Gabriel 40%.. it's a joke..
They seem to be grading pressure on the pocket and not the QB... like Sawyer or JTT got pressure on the pocket, even though they were nowhere near the QB... we didn't touch Gabriel.. that's not pressure..
Like we all know, it's just a ballpark number. But they can't be completely wrong. Even if they were wrong half the time they were grading, that's still 20% pressure rate.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
Yeah. I seem to recall a lot of plays where we were really close to him ... before he completed a pass to someone. How many times did you see him on his back?
It was obvious a huge part of the gameplan was play the short quick passing game. The DL was playing contain (so Gabriel can’t hurt us outside the pocket) and get hands in passing lanes (because he’s 5’10). Thats why you see zero pressure and plays like Burke peeking in the backfield and then getting beat over the top.
Yes, 100%. Regardless of the alleged differences in philosophy with Knowles, the fact is that LJ's units have dramatically underperformed since Chase left. That was also the case in 2020 and 2021, before Knowles took over. He's done a lot for the program and I'll always appreciate him, but I just don't see the results at this point.
My hope is that he just retires gracefully this offseason. I think his time has passed, but I would hate to see his legacy tarnished by an acrimonious departure ala Tony Alford.
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
No! And your sick for even suggesting that!
We only need to seriously maim him to get the message across: an OSU loss is NEVER acceptable, especially in prime-time before a national audience.
J and N Bosa, then Chase were generational talent that would have excelled at a lot of places, they happened to be at OSU, as for other 5 star DLmen, tell me one that excelled or panned out as we thought they would. I don't know what the real story is on friction amongst LJ and JK, but if it's LJ demanding that the 4 DLmen simply put a hat on a hat and try to win the battle, then that needs to change....they need disguised blitzes, stunting, moving guys around to confuse the D, etc....I'm no expert by any means but what they are doing is not producing the pressure and sacks that are needed to get the other team behind the sticks. JTT does not set the edge, having 2 LB's constantly doesn't help...the Jack position was supposed to be a hyrbid LB/Edge guy that could also drop back when needed.....we don't see that happening either.....something needs to change, beating average teams and losing the big ones just shows you are a paper tiger until you prove otherwise.
"I don't want to be around average, why be around average!" -UFM
While there is some presnap movement of the LBs and DBs, our dline is static. The offense gets to see the set, identify the speads and gaps, and make the blocking calls; maybe even change the play if it's early enough in the clock cycle. Maybe that worked 10 years ago, but the game has changed dramatically since then. We need to have some late shifts of the dline to confuse blocking assignements. We definitely need more stunts and twists. We need to develop and use speed rushers on obvious passing downs. We might need more blitzes.Much as I love our offense and defense I think we have a scheme problem with the dline.
I think that LJ has always thrived with generational talent even at PSU. His lines without the Bosas or Young and some of his PSU linemen have been good but not great. I will say if he and Knowles are having some “philosophical” differences one of the needs to go. You cannot have one coach undermine the other.
I just do not buy the friction argument. LJ is not a young dude...if he wasn't bought in he would retire he has made more money in the last 5 years than I would imagine he ever thought he would make. He could retire and not have a financial worry the rest of his life.
Said in another thread that I think this is his last year. The rumors were already rolling in the offseason about bringing in Jason Taylor. Think LJ promised JT and Jack he would be here for their careers and he's done that. Maybe he stays on in an advisory role since they can have more coaches, but I do not think he'll be the main DL coach going forward.
They desperately need a modern Dline coach. Larry's style worked in the old school 4-3/3-4 era of defense for attacking 90s, 00s, & early 10s offenses. But the modern passing attacks require tricks and disguise from the front
If he is going rogue or being insubordinate to Knowles and Day, whatever you want to call it, then he has to go. I don't care if the rogue person has "Jordan 23" on their jersey, that will ruin a team and needs to end.
I think its a combo of defensive scheme and play calling. Knowles defenses seem to be all or nothing. It's either blitz vs bend but don't break. Where is the middle ground. That said, Oregon is good. They played fast, made less mistakes, and understood the basics and applied them for the win.
I'm not sure there's any way for us to know what's really happening. Something seems off and has for years now. It's difficult to observe that there's clearly talent and production that doesn't match it. Johnson has quite a few players tearing up the NFL. It's hard to say if he develops players well or just recruits well. Probably a combo of both but is he doing it as well in his 70's?
Defense needs to drop these dumbass nicknames until they start performing in big games. SIlver bullets, Rushman, BIA all my f'ing ass. Self proclaimed bs
Like the majority of us on here, we're all LJ fans. However, I have to agree with you on this. It's time he relinquishes any game scheming and strictly coaches his kids up. Coach Knowles needs full reign of the defense, and if it doesn't work, then get rid of him.
Here's the thing with LJ. He has produced an unprecedented string of STUD college DLs -- several of whom became STUD NFL DL.
Bosa x 2, Chase Young, Courtney Brown, Tamba Hali, Aaron Maybin, Michael Haynes, Jared Odrick, Jimmy Kennedy, etc. His success at Penn State is arguably more impressive than his run here, which is saying a lot.
How much of that was elite recruiting vs. development? I'd say it's both. But there's a very real chance that his approach to pass rushing hasn't kept pace with the way the game has changed. Particularly now that QBs are getting the ball out quicker than in the past. Waiting for dudes to win their 1-on-1 matchup isn't the way to get pressure anymore, and even then......our guys aren't doing it.
Obviously something is amiss between him and Knowles. That's ultimately on Day, but whatever the case, Knowles has to be the guy in charge on defense. And if LJ is a hindrance to that, it's time for a change.
He deserves praise and admiration for being the GOAT at his position. But even the GOATs hit a point of diminishing returns at some point. Penn State has fielded better DLs than us lately, and there's absolutely no excuse for that.
Larry is like any old coach. He’s a legend of the game but it’s passed him by. Hat on a hat pass rushing doesn’t work anymore. QBs throw the ball too quickly now. In order to generate pressure you gotta mix up fronts, disguise blitzes/sim pressures, run stunts and twists.
If the Bosas and Chase went somewhere other than OSU, would they still be tearing it up in the NFL? I say yes, they would. So what does he do with the rest of the players he coaches? He's not sending three stars to the NFL because of his development.
He's not sending three stars to the NFL because of his development.
Sam Hubbard. Davon Hamilton.
I'm also not disagreeing with the first part of what you said. They probably are elite anywhere. My point is he has done both, however it's been awhile. Short quick passing has all but nullified what LJS does.
I don't care if he recruits well, is well liked, a living legend, has put x number of men in the NFL. The RESULTS for YEARS have not been good enough. The results are the only thing that matters and he is not providing them period. LJ needs to go!
33 and 44 should be playing the same position. This playing two SDEs experiment needs to end, and 92, 97, and 11 need to be coming off the edge all the time. Knowles says all summer #11 is one of their best 11 and he can't get on the field for the same reason Baron Browning couldn't.. when he does get to rush the passer he blows blockers up which these others have had 4 years to do and just are what they are... we will see if Day wants to embrace the CEO role over the break or just keep delegating the rotation.. he has put the rushmen out himself (can see him call it on the sideline) - the fact he is the one making that call tells you all you need to know about LJ's "rotation".
Watching a DL and entire defence stacked with NFL talent looking so ordinary this past weekend brought back flashbacks for me of the final 3 games of 2019.
After looking like a potential all-time great unit for the first 11 games of the 2019 season (never giving up more than 275 yards per game or 4.8 yards per play), Ohio State's final three opponents (TTUN, Wisconsin and Clemson) averaged over 400 yards and more than 6 yards per play.
Chase Young didn't record a sack during the final three games (after racking up 16.5 in the previous 9 games), as the Buckeyes as a team struggled to generate pressure against the better offenses it faced down the stretch (2.3 sacks per games over the final three games vs. 4.3 over the first 11).
People often talk about the 2019 defence and Chase Young's dominance, but they faded down the stretch against better competition.
I think you are forgetting that Chase young started getting double teamed consistently AND osu was scoring so fast and so much the defense was getting put on the field …. Plus against clemsob , Okudah injured his hammy and didn’t play the entire 2nd half and wade got ejected on a bs call
Shouldn't Young getting double teamed free someone else up? If it were that easy, teams would just always double team their opponents best player and take him out of the game. Why did the overall defensive production nose dive over the final three games (giving up over 6 yards per play the final three games)?
The offense put up a lot of points and scored fast early in the season, yet the defence was still dominant. Why did that change the last three games?
Most likely explanation to me is that their scheme and talent advantage worked against overmatched opponents, but not against better offenses where the talent matchup was more even.
Okudah played every snap but one. Forced the fumble that should have resulted in a scoop 6.
In 2019 the defense took a nose dive because of what would pop up in 2020. We were running a very basic scheme. Solely Cover 3 or Cover 1 with blitzes mixed in & teams knew that. Michigan attacked it well but they were just not consistent enough. Wisconsin just had no outside talent to exploit it. Clemson didn’t have the WRs to make us pay because our DBs were better than their WRs. But we gave up too many big plays.
Something isn't right with the DL. Always getting 0 pressure on the qb even against the shit teams. I saw South Carolina's 2 edge rushers wreck Alabama's OL, and was wondering why Jack and JT can't be like that.
Jack and JT are not elite. Honestly, they've had underwhelming careers. Neither one of them truly lived up to the hype. JT had a once in a lifetime performance against Penn State 2 years ago, and that's it. Jack has had a few good individual games, but never any games where he dominated. If I'm not mistaken, Chase had more sacks in 3 years here than Jack and JT had in 4 years combined. That is wild.
I'm very disappointed in how Jack and JT weren't able to affect or even touch Gabriel once.
That is the question isn't it? Is it them or the schemes and how they're being utilized? if they go and pop off in the NFL we'll know the answer to that.
Well, Alabama's line is garbage as Vandy was in their lap all day the week prior. Do you not remember the Michigan playoff game last year where Milroe was basically walking wounded?
IF there is conflict like some have mentioned between the DC and the D-line coach, it is Day's job to support who he hired as his DC. From the looks of things, the Knowles defenses' do not look as disruptive at THE OSU as it did at Okie State. What is odd, he has more talent here than he did there. While I am no expert in football, I do understand when there is conflict in an organization. There is something going on behind the scenes on the defensive side of the ball. And it's Day's job to fix it. Simply put if there are egos involved, bring it in behind closed doors and do what is best for the TEAM. If its Johnson tell him to fall in step or show him the door at the end of the season. If it's Knowles, do the same. It does appear to be problems between those two. It has shit to do with loyalty when it hurts the TEAM. LJ has had a great career, personally I think his best years have passed. The way the defensive line is playing over the past several years is proof even before Knowles showed up. The talent and depth are there as well to include the inconsistencies. You can hang your hat on the Bosa's and Young for so long. That talent was already there.
Day is the CEO of Ohio State football. It is his responsibility to get the right coaches to do the job. If you look at the results Johnson is not getting the job done. Just for the record I am NOT in the fire Day camp but so far Day's legacy is not looking very good. Just like Urban wasted all the talent on the '15 squad by promoting the incompetent duo Beck and Warriner, Day wasted CJ by hiring Combs.
I'm not in the fire Day camp either. Granted he's fallen short in some key games but it's on players as well as assistant coaches and coordinators to ensure the right people are in the right positions and executing the plays. Sometimes I think he tries to hard to make the perfect plays and he overthinks. While it is easier said than done, play a little loser and relax, I know the pressure is on but he has to block out the background noise and allow Chip and Jim to execute the game plans and chime in when adjustments need to be made. Simple shit like play Innis more at WR. Or get more creative on defense on blitz packages or position packages. Sometimes the defense looks to mechanical. Kind of like they did in the 2nd half of the Oregon game.
Until they can find someone that can do better than the existing coach, you never fire until you have a plan for a BETTER replacement.
You can't affect a good passer without pressure. In case you have'nt noticed Ryan Day always announces the new coach the same day he says goodby to the old one
Every year we find another position coach to take the blame for a team that since 2019 hasn’t played aggressive. We get attacked on defense we don’t do the attacking. The offense dictates how we play we don’t make a team do anything. It’s the culture plain and simple.
2.5 seconds to release the ball. And we want to blame Larry? It's by design. No more 5 and 7 step drops. Get real man. Should we fire Chip Kelly for Judkins fumbling while we are at it?
Bullets will be back to save the season, and Stroud's dignity.
They did not play great defensively either. And I think our offense looked pretty good. My point is 0 sacks is not good enough. 1 sack could have been the difference in a game like that.
They were missing their #1 pass rusher and weren't supposed to have the best defense since 2021 UGA like we were told all off season. They also forced a turnover, were better on third down, and forced the same amount of punts in less posessions...
10 years ago it felt like osu could hang it’s hat on having two of the top three or four DE in the conference. They probably have two of the top ten right now and neither is top three.
The missing pash rush has been the most consistent theme in all of these top matchups. Penn state the last 3 years has been the outlier as the DL has pretty much dominated them every year.
LJ has had a long leash for good reason, but a 4th straight season with this is getting to be out of control. It’s time for something to change.
If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!
Are we to believe that where there’s smoke there’s fire? Day wanted Knowles to run his defense. If there is pushback from a position coach, even one with LJs cache, he shouldn’t be employed to sabotage the defense. Johnson would rather lose with his style than win with someone else’s style. That mentality has to be removed
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Smoke? Where at? All I see is the same ones saying it from 3 years ago. It literally started when Knowles was brought in and he put Jack sawyer in the JACK. It’s not new news. It’s fan banter fueled by lazy podcasters. It may have been an issue in the beginning but not now after all this time. No HC would let that go this long. Common sense
Yes, most fans have thought he should have been gone a year or two ago but every year we keep him around too long and then panic when we think we'll lose DL recruits. LJ isn't developing like he used to and he seems to have an inability to dial up schemes and stunts to help his players get home. When his players aren't winning one on one everytime, we get what we saw on Saturday.
Austin Ward mentioned on 97.1 this afternoon that there has been some friction/disconnect/frustrations in the defensive coaches room, even prior to Knowles showing up. He indicated the its not necessarily a Johnson vs Knowles thing but something he's been told has been going on for a few years. So does that indicate Johnson is the wrench in the machine or ongoing poor leadership on the defensive side of the ball? It does seem weird Combs fell on his face & now Knowles is struggling as well. Austin starts at 2:33.00
That's exactly what this sounds like. But ppl still won't believe it's a problem even though it's from the ppl with inside access to the team who have been reporting this for like 2 3 years now
Larry Johnson is an old dog that won't learn new tricks and will bite anyone who tries to make him learn new tricks. It's solely Ryan Day's fault for not putting him down. Day needs to grow a pair and be a $10M coach for once in his life and fire Larry once and for all. This saga is a clear display of weak leadership from Ryan Day
It can only be LJ and other previous coordinators. There is no other common denominator here besides LJ unless Austin is implicating Day as also being responsible for the defensive woes. If I recall, Day insisted on running a single-high scheme prior to Knowles arriving. That may be why Austin is trying to be vague.
Retire no, but we he take a demotion and stay, doubt it???
The game has passed him, this isn't 10 years ago when guys with the sort of athleticism we have on the defensive line could just routinely beat slow most unathletic slobs.
You have to be creative, run stunts. move guys around, show different formations..
He doesn't want to do any of that..
It's Coombs all over again.. he should have demoted last year, but because of what he has meant to the program and just can't seem to do it..
You are paying Knowles to run the defense.. let him run the defense.. not whatever it is we have right now where its Knowles calls the defense but has to react to whatever Johnson wants to do.. its stupid..
Recruiting isn't good enough to use that as an excuse to keep Larry around. Day is just placating LJ because maybe Ryan Day just can't bear the possibility of a legend like Larry Johnson leaving Ohio State on bad terms? Day seems like the kind of guy that really cares if people in his own building like him or not. Respect > popularity
Since Chase Young here are the dline guys we recruited (excluding freshmen) and their 247 consensus ratings, What an amazing list of recruits! Here's a little game ... name the ones that turned into game changers. Name the ones that offenses feared. If they're still here, name the ones that are sure-fire, can't-miss NFL prospects.
I thought Knowles himself hast stated that he isn’t worried about sacks and the #1 job of his DL is to contain and stop the run. Maybe this is the run between him and Larry. Maybe it’s more Knowles than it is Larry.
Because JT goes off script and plays hero ball on a play where the RB probably loses 3 yards if he keeps contain.
I've seen breakdowns where JT might've been coached to attack the mesh point to force decision and Simon was actually keeping contain on the QB keeper.
The first isn't Knowles fault if JT goes off script, the second on the coaches.
I tend to believe JT played hero ball trying to make a big play but he was so decisive at attacking the mesh point it could be option two.
I’m listening to Dave biddle right now and of course he’s fanning the flames on this once again. His words “there’s definitely a disconnect. I can see it. Day will keep it in house but my sources tell me it’s there. I can’t tell you what the disconnect is or if it’s on Knowles or Larry Johnson but I just know it’s happening…” THIS is the crap where bad takes are born from. No insight or details. Just flinging shit against the wall. Don’t be a biddle: be better
I'm not concerned about the sacks, but I am concerned about our lack-luster pass rush. Knowles came here with his vaunted "jack" idea, but really hasn't been able to implement it because of LJ's line strategy. There is disconnect between the two and it's up to Day to get it resolved but quick. Our blitzes are non-existent, our line movement is non-existent, our stunts are non-existent. A lot of coaches would kill to have half as good of a defensive personnel as we have and we're tossing it down the drain because of a disconnect between 2 defensive guys, where Knowles should be in charge...period! It's up to LJ to get the guys ready for any situation and teach them the proper techniques to blitz, stunt and shift on the line. Knowles as the DC determines the strategy and what defense should be called.
Day is letting friendship get in the way of business.
It's not like Knowles doesn't know how to get sacks out of a defense. In his penultimate year at Ok St his team was 21st in sacks. In his final year they were third. And that's with talent that presumably not nearly as good as what the Buckeyes have.
I appreciate and respect LJ so much for his time at Ohio State, but I am firm in my belief that the DL and OL could probably both use different voices in those rooms. It's not that he hasn't done well, I just think the game maybe passed him by.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
Good recruiter, but he hasn't developed anyone in a really long time, and even then it's hard to know if guys like the Bosas and Young were just too big to fail, with or without him.
He's being overruled by Larry Johnson, and that's something Day needs to fix yesterday. Knowles system is sound, when he is allowed to run it.
— CFB Focus (@cffmwachsman) October 16, 2024
I'm surprised no one has done a side by side comparison of the OkSU and OSU defense when defending similar concepts. It'd be nice to know what the defense should look like with the Jack compared to what we are running.
Not sure if it's coaches, players or scheme but I do know Im tired of having to discuss the defenisve problems. Day is piad a lot of money to figure it out. Get if fixed Ryan or it will be fixed for you.
Day is a massive part of the problem here. If he was going to do anything about Larry, he would've done it by now. I think LJ leaving Ohio State on good terms with the program and Day is more important to Ryan than doing what's right for the team. You can't say you want to meet the Ohio State standard (beat TTUN, win the B1G, win the national championship) and keep a disrespectful, insubordinate, washed up old man that has been kneecapping the defense for years.
Either Ryan Day wants to win a national championship this year or he wants Larry to leave Ohio State on good terms with him and the program. He can't have both. He was never going to get both. I think Ryan has made his choice. He'd rather stroke Larry's ego than win at the highest level. Let's see how happy the boosters are with Day at the end of the season when their $20M team doesn't win it all because the head coach was too soft to fire Larry Johnson
This is my opinion, and I've said it before...Knowles is the coordinator of the back 7 only. He must play every snap with at least 4 DL. He is allowed to incorporate them in zone pressures where they drop into coverage. Whether Knowles can dictate DL alignments, gap assignments, stunts, twists, pinches, etc. I am not so sure. I bet he has some say, but I tend to believe he is constrained by how Johnson wants to coach and deploy his DL.
Knowles has made adjustments. He has played 4-2-5, 4-3-4, 4-1-6, and even 5-man bear fronts. Aside from the scUM games (which are tainted), he has adjusted nicely to stopping BIG 10 run heavy attacks. Against lesser opponents we have been dominate and the statistics bear that out. We have played zone and man, press and off coverage. We have dropped 8 or 9 and we have also blitzed 6 or 7. But the fact is, Knowles is not running running his true scheme. He was brought in due to his success at Oklahoma State. He is not running that same defense. This is fact. Why bring in a coach if you are not going to let him run his stuff? His scheme was tailored to combat Big 12 spread offenses. Offensives that are very similar to what we saw from Oregon. Offensives that every college team, aside from dinosaurs like Iowa, are trending towards.
The game is won at the LOS. If what I suspect is true, Knowles is limited in how he can attack the LOS. This basically distills the defensive performance down to whether or not Johnson's DL unit consistently wins their matchups. In big games, they simply have not.
If we are going to reach our goals this year, we must create more pressures. Sacks are no longer the key stat in today's game. Pressure rate is. Pressures lead to misreads by the QB, incompletions, tipped balls, INTs, and yes sacks or possibly forced fumbles.
Yes, we have improved in sacks so far this year....though none against Oregon. Yet, I believe we are allowing opponents to complete 64% of their passes and we have really only faced 1 proficient passing team in 6 games. That team, Oregon, completed 67% of their passes. Basically on par with what we have allowed all season. We are ranked 72 nationally with just 4 INTs. We are simply not creating enough pressure and confusion at the LOS for opposing QBs on passing plays.
Johnson is coming to the end of his illustrious career. I hope he has a glorious end. But if our coaches cannot get on the same page, it will be an ugly one.
Name me one place where a lessor employee calls the shots over his boss? I really think Larry is hamstringing this defense. He’s too stubborn to allow Knowles run his defense. It’s almost like Larry thinks he’s untouchable and doesn’t seem concerned about Day pulling him into the office and chewing him out. I really think Day is petrified at the thought of losing Larry, because of the talent he pulls in. But let’s face it, Larry isn’t going to coach forever and Day should have had a successor. If some guys transfer because of it then so it.
Johnson also isn't bringing in enough talent or players in general to be safe from being held accountable for his behavior. This situation is on Day being a pussy for letting LJ get out of control by potentially tanking yet another possible national championship caliber team for whatever stupid reason Ryan has for letting this fester for so long. He's got to be afraid of pissing off Larry and making him leave the program on bad terms, which for whatever reason, Ryan prefers to sacrifice his program to avoid that from happening at all costs. Looks like he's gonna get the best of both worlds where OSU might not succeed this year because of the helpless pass rush AND LJ leaves Ohio State in disgrace! Great job, Coach Day!
It’s almost like Larry thinks he’s untouchable and doesn’t seem concerned about Day pulling him into the office and chewing him out. I really think Day is petrified at the thought of losing Larry, because of the talent he pulls in.
Is this not on Day for not bringing in a DC whose philosophy aligns with his DL coach who has been here for how many years now? And then if he REALLY wanted Knowles to be the guy... also his fault for not identifying that LJ remaining on staff would be an issue? Gives him an extensions instead? He gets paid tons of money to make these kinds of decisions.
I've thought that for years now. He may have recruited some good names, but I don't recall amazing Dlines at Penn State, nor since Bosas and Young, who were already great, left.
we can shit on LJ for alot... but PSU had literal elite DLs under Johnson , did he produce alot of nfl talent ? not always, but PSU DLs were always top 5 in the nation
I've thought that for years now. He may have recruited some good names, but I don't recall amazing Dlines at Penn State, nor since Bosas and Young, who were already great, left.
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It's worth asking since we CANNOT get pressure with our front four. No sacks, no hurries. When we blitzed we made their QB uncomfortable but Knowles clearly doesn't like blitzing. We need Sawyer and Tui to get there ... and it's not happening.
I think his line is doing a magnificent job and I hope he stays well into his eighties.
You are joking right? Not since Chase Young have we had a game wrecking defensive linemen. Zero sacks and barely any QB pressures
Gabriel was under pressure on 40% of his drop backs...we pressured him plenty.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
And how many of that was on no blitz and only 4 rushers...the answer is zero
I hope you're not going off of PFF scores/grades. Their definition of a pressure is much too generous... we effectively had 2 legit pressures that game... only 2...
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
Saw that stat and laughed out loud. Gabriel requires a crow hop to throw deep balls and had space to do it all night. That stat is a joke. They must be counting Sawyer or JT pushing the tackle five yards behind a clean pocket bc he was not impacted by a pass rush more than twice I recall during the game.
Scared to death about how bad this D line will be if a line full of highly recruited seniors is this ineffective vs a top team
Get the coaches on the same page and then we will see how the highly recruited seniors can play.
Johnson is signed through 2026 so it won't be easy to make a change.
My take: LJ is an assistant coach who coaches the DL. Jim Knowles is his superior, as is Ryan Day. We need to do what most big programs are doing...go to three down lineman with a rover (Jack) to create a little havoc.
We put zero pressure on Gabriel last Saturday and that can't continue to happen. Whatever the coaching staff decides, it must include a scheme to pressure the opposing QB. Gabriel had all day to throw and any decent QB will rip a defense to shreds with that kind of time.
The problem with the "Knowles is his superior" line is that I believe Larry still has "Assistant Head Coach" in his email signature. That would indicate at the very least equals if not Larry being the superior. It never sat right with me that you'd make a position coach "Assistant Head Coach" and this would be why.
Larry Johnson is a POSITION COACH with a title. He is NOT an Equal to Knowles when it comes to the defense I can assure you there is absolutely no way that he would have come here if he wasn't the man in charge. If you recall Day called the hiring the HEAD COACH of the Defense. Knowles runs the defense, END OF STORY. If Larry Johnson is not doing what Knowles wants then Johnson needs to be IMMEDIATELY FIRED along with Ryan Day for allowing that in his Organization. EVERYONE HAS TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE, SINGING THE SAM SONG or you will not reach your goals ANYONE who has run an organization KNOWS THIS.
You WIN with people.
WW Hayes
Larry was very literally hired as both the Assistant Head Coach and DL coach by Urban, that title changed to Associate Head Coach in 2019. LJ has the legacy of being a spectacular DL coach, to go along with 10+ years at Ohio State. So, while LJ is a position coach, he's an Associate Head Coach first. LJ and Tim Walton are both Assistant/Associate Head Coaches, while seemingly the same title, the Associate Head Coach is technically second in command.
I'm not sure another situation like this exists anywhere else in the football universe, let alone in college football. Yes, Day needs to take charge here, but because of the Associate Head Coach title, he has (allegedly) very little control over LJ having a job. Further exacerbating the issue is, by all accounts, LJ is loved by the players.
Your approach/solution is very simple and cut and dry...on the surface. But there's much more nuance to it. Unfortunately, I don't see an answer until one or both of LJ and Knowles is no longer on staff.
Love you more, JW. 1/16/71-9/23/12
That title means nothing and is just there to justify his salary since it’s technically a state job.
What do you mean it wont be easy? Day sits down with Knowles and Johnson and if there isnt 100% agreement on who is in charge of the Defense then Johnson is fired. Knowles is in charge PERIOD. Day hired knowels calling him the HEAD COACH of the Defense that means Knowles boss is Day the rest of the defensive staff is subordinate to Knowles if there is any incongruity there we will lose more games.
This is FUNDAMENTALS for a coaching staff I REFUSE to buy into the notion that Day doesn't have a CLEAR hierarchy. Johnson has been at OSU for a long time now lets not pretend this silly idea has any truth. Ive met Larry and Ive heard stuff about what kind of man he is from people who have access to the staff and the woody. This who narrative is counter to everything Ive been told and what he teaches about how to be a man. I dont by it.... I think they were TERRIFIED of Gabriels legs wanted to contain rush and couldn't get pressure with the front they should have run some stunts and sent sonny or CJ on blitz's or they could have sent Caleb.... the thing is they were convinced (WRONGLY) that the secondary could cover with no pressure. Burke gambles and always has you may recall he got benched two years ago during the ND game because he got torched... he bites on fakes and can be exploited with that and that is what they did. The OC saw that on film and attacked him
You WIN with people.
WW Hayes
He was pressured on 40% of his drop backs, per PFF>
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
Their grades are so bad lately... they said Howard, who was running for his life after we lost two starters only got pressured 25% of the time, and Gabriel 40%.. it's a joke..
They seem to be grading pressure on the pocket and not the QB... like Sawyer or JTT got pressure on the pocket, even though they were nowhere near the QB... we didn't touch Gabriel.. that's not pressure..
Go Bucks!!
Like we all know, it's just a ballpark number. But they can't be completely wrong. Even if they were wrong half the time they were grading, that's still 20% pressure rate.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
The in stadium stat person credited Ohio State with 2 pressures the whole night.
I don't know how PFF or the in-stadium stat person measures pressures. I was just sharing a stat.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
That's a garbage stat. A 5'10 QB was able to operate in the pocket all night and wasn't touched minus a scramble for 1 yard.
Is it a garbage stat when 11W shows Howard's performances under pressure vs not? Or when our D-line creates a ton of perceived pressure?
I was just sharing one resource that has come out.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
Yeah. I seem to recall a lot of plays where we were really close to him ... before he completed a pass to someone. How many times did you see him on his back?
It was obvious a huge part of the gameplan was play the short quick passing game. The DL was playing contain (so Gabriel can’t hurt us outside the pocket) and get hands in passing lanes (because he’s 5’10). Thats why you see zero pressure and plays like Burke peeking in the backfield and then getting beat over the top.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Question is valid
Yes, 100%. Regardless of the alleged differences in philosophy with Knowles, the fact is that LJ's units have dramatically underperformed since Chase left. That was also the case in 2020 and 2021, before Knowles took over. He's done a lot for the program and I'll always appreciate him, but I just don't see the results at this point.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
My hope is that he just retires gracefully this offseason. I think his time has passed, but I would hate to see his legacy tarnished by an acrimonious departure ala Tony Alford.
If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.
Should we kill him?
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OSU will win title this year - Dr R, 10/13/24
Yes
and replace him with mini-Ditka
Post of the day
Joel
"Should we kill him?"
No! And your sick for even suggesting that!
We only need to seriously maim him to get the message across: an OSU loss is NEVER acceptable, especially in prime-time before a national audience.
"Put ya' weight on it"
J and N Bosa, then Chase were generational talent that would have excelled at a lot of places, they happened to be at OSU, as for other 5 star DLmen, tell me one that excelled or panned out as we thought they would. I don't know what the real story is on friction amongst LJ and JK, but if it's LJ demanding that the 4 DLmen simply put a hat on a hat and try to win the battle, then that needs to change....they need disguised blitzes, stunting, moving guys around to confuse the D, etc....I'm no expert by any means but what they are doing is not producing the pressure and sacks that are needed to get the other team behind the sticks. JTT does not set the edge, having 2 LB's constantly doesn't help...the Jack position was supposed to be a hyrbid LB/Edge guy that could also drop back when needed.....we don't see that happening either.....something needs to change, beating average teams and losing the big ones just shows you are a paper tiger until you prove otherwise.
"I don't want to be around average, why be around average!" -UFM
While there is some presnap movement of the LBs and DBs, our dline is static. The offense gets to see the set, identify the speads and gaps, and make the blocking calls; maybe even change the play if it's early enough in the clock cycle. Maybe that worked 10 years ago, but the game has changed dramatically since then. We need to have some late shifts of the dline to confuse blocking assignements. We definitely need more stunts and twists. We need to develop and use speed rushers on obvious passing downs. We might need more blitzes.Much as I love our offense and defense I think we have a scheme problem with the dline.
I think it has to happen.
IMADELOUSYPICKS
I think that LJ has always thrived with generational talent even at PSU. His lines without the Bosas or Young and some of his PSU linemen have been good but not great. I will say if he and Knowles are having some “philosophical” differences one of the needs to go. You cannot have one coach undermine the other.
I just do not buy the friction argument. LJ is not a young dude...if he wasn't bought in he would retire he has made more money in the last 5 years than I would imagine he ever thought he would make. He could retire and not have a financial worry the rest of his life.
You WIN with people.
WW Hayes
100%!
Said in another thread that I think this is his last year. The rumors were already rolling in the offseason about bringing in Jason Taylor. Think LJ promised JT and Jack he would be here for their careers and he's done that. Maybe he stays on in an advisory role since they can have more coaches, but I do not think he'll be the main DL coach going forward.
I hope this is the case.
They desperately need a modern Dline coach. Larry's style worked in the old school 4-3/3-4 era of defense for attacking 90s, 00s, & early 10s offenses. But the modern passing attacks require tricks and disguise from the front
If he is going rogue or being insubordinate to Knowles and Day, whatever you want to call it, then he has to go. I don't care if the rogue person has "Jordan 23" on their jersey, that will ruin a team and needs to end.
I think its a combo of defensive scheme and play calling. Knowles defenses seem to be all or nothing. It's either blitz vs bend but don't break. Where is the middle ground. That said, Oregon is good. They played fast, made less mistakes, and understood the basics and applied them for the win.
I'm not sure there's any way for us to know what's really happening. Something seems off and has for years now. It's difficult to observe that there's clearly talent and production that doesn't match it. Johnson has quite a few players tearing up the NFL. It's hard to say if he develops players well or just recruits well. Probably a combo of both but is he doing it as well in his 70's?
Joel
If you are not willing or able to follow the directions of your supervisor, you need to go.
Sani
You maybe right about LJ? But for god sake show Knowles the door. Since he’s been here his defense is really what has failed in big games.
Artthedart
I have 3 words to comment here……..Rushmen my ass
it’s all a facade…..
Defense needs to drop these dumbass nicknames until they start performing in big games. SIlver bullets, Rushman, BIA all my f'ing ass. Self proclaimed bs
This is my opinion from another thread:
Like the majority of us on here, we're all LJ fans. However, I have to agree with you on this. It's time he relinquishes any game scheming and strictly coaches his kids up. Coach Knowles needs full reign of the defense, and if it doesn't work, then get rid of him.
Leave no doubt
3 years ago
Here's the thing with LJ. He has produced an unprecedented string of STUD college DLs -- several of whom became STUD NFL DL.
Bosa x 2, Chase Young, Courtney Brown, Tamba Hali, Aaron Maybin, Michael Haynes, Jared Odrick, Jimmy Kennedy, etc. His success at Penn State is arguably more impressive than his run here, which is saying a lot.
How much of that was elite recruiting vs. development? I'd say it's both. But there's a very real chance that his approach to pass rushing hasn't kept pace with the way the game has changed. Particularly now that QBs are getting the ball out quicker than in the past. Waiting for dudes to win their 1-on-1 matchup isn't the way to get pressure anymore, and even then......our guys aren't doing it.
Obviously something is amiss between him and Knowles. That's ultimately on Day, but whatever the case, Knowles has to be the guy in charge on defense. And if LJ is a hindrance to that, it's time for a change.
He deserves praise and admiration for being the GOAT at his position. But even the GOATs hit a point of diminishing returns at some point. Penn State has fielded better DLs than us lately, and there's absolutely no excuse for that.
Larry is like any old coach. He’s a legend of the game but it’s passed him by. Hat on a hat pass rushing doesn’t work anymore. QBs throw the ball too quickly now. In order to generate pressure you gotta mix up fronts, disguise blitzes/sim pressures, run stunts and twists.
If the Bosas and Chase went somewhere other than OSU, would they still be tearing it up in the NFL? I say yes, they would. So what does he do with the rest of the players he coaches? He's not sending three stars to the NFL because of his development.
Sam Hubbard. Davon Hamilton.
I'm also not disagreeing with the first part of what you said. They probably are elite anywhere. My point is he has done both, however it's been awhile. Short quick passing has all but nullified what LJS does.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I don't care if he recruits well, is well liked, a living legend, has put x number of men in the NFL. The RESULTS for YEARS have not been good enough. The results are the only thing that matters and he is not providing them period. LJ needs to go!
33 and 44 should be playing the same position. This playing two SDEs experiment needs to end, and 92, 97, and 11 need to be coming off the edge all the time. Knowles says all summer #11 is one of their best 11 and he can't get on the field for the same reason Baron Browning couldn't.. when he does get to rush the passer he blows blockers up which these others have had 4 years to do and just are what they are... we will see if Day wants to embrace the CEO role over the break or just keep delegating the rotation.. he has put the rushmen out himself (can see him call it on the sideline) - the fact he is the one making that call tells you all you need to know about LJ's "rotation".
Yes, it's time for a transition away from LJ. Keep him on as advisory. We need to get younger and more effective. Something's gotta give...
Buckeye For Life
If the tale of zero cohesion between him and Knowles is true, that's pretty unacceptable.
Number 1 rule in life: always beat That Team Up North.
Watching a DL and entire defence stacked with NFL talent looking so ordinary this past weekend brought back flashbacks for me of the final 3 games of 2019.
After looking like a potential all-time great unit for the first 11 games of the 2019 season (never giving up more than 275 yards per game or 4.8 yards per play), Ohio State's final three opponents (TTUN, Wisconsin and Clemson) averaged over 400 yards and more than 6 yards per play.
Chase Young didn't record a sack during the final three games (after racking up 16.5 in the previous 9 games), as the Buckeyes as a team struggled to generate pressure against the better offenses it faced down the stretch (2.3 sacks per games over the final three games vs. 4.3 over the first 11).
People often talk about the 2019 defence and Chase Young's dominance, but they faded down the stretch against better competition.
I think you are forgetting that Chase young started getting double teamed consistently AND osu was scoring so fast and so much the defense was getting put on the field …. Plus against clemsob , Okudah injured his hammy and didn’t play the entire 2nd half and wade got ejected on a bs call
Shouldn't Young getting double teamed free someone else up? If it were that easy, teams would just always double team their opponents best player and take him out of the game. Why did the overall defensive production nose dive over the final three games (giving up over 6 yards per play the final three games)?
The offense put up a lot of points and scored fast early in the season, yet the defence was still dominant. Why did that change the last three games?
Most likely explanation to me is that their scheme and talent advantage worked against overmatched opponents, but not against better offenses where the talent matchup was more even.
Okudah played every snap but one. Forced the fumble that should have resulted in a scoop 6.
In 2019 the defense took a nose dive because of what would pop up in 2020. We were running a very basic scheme. Solely Cover 3 or Cover 1 with blitzes mixed in & teams knew that. Michigan attacked it well but they were just not consistent enough. Wisconsin just had no outside talent to exploit it. Clemson didn’t have the WRs to make us pay because our DBs were better than their WRs. But we gave up too many big plays.
Something isn't right with the DL. Always getting 0 pressure on the qb even against the shit teams. I saw South Carolina's 2 edge rushers wreck Alabama's OL, and was wondering why Jack and JT can't be like that.
It is so frustrating to watch other teams create pressure and chaos in the backfield compared to the clean pocket Gabriel had all night.
Jack and JT are not elite. Honestly, they've had underwhelming careers. Neither one of them truly lived up to the hype. JT had a once in a lifetime performance against Penn State 2 years ago, and that's it. Jack has had a few good individual games, but never any games where he dominated. If I'm not mistaken, Chase had more sacks in 3 years here than Jack and JT had in 4 years combined. That is wild.
I'm very disappointed in how Jack and JT weren't able to affect or even touch Gabriel once.
That is the question isn't it? Is it them or the schemes and how they're being utilized? if they go and pop off in the NFL we'll know the answer to that.
Well, Alabama's line is garbage as Vandy was in their lap all day the week prior. Do you not remember the Michigan playoff game last year where Milroe was basically walking wounded?
IF there is conflict like some have mentioned between the DC and the D-line coach, it is Day's job to support who he hired as his DC. From the looks of things, the Knowles defenses' do not look as disruptive at THE OSU as it did at Okie State. What is odd, he has more talent here than he did there. While I am no expert in football, I do understand when there is conflict in an organization. There is something going on behind the scenes on the defensive side of the ball. And it's Day's job to fix it. Simply put if there are egos involved, bring it in behind closed doors and do what is best for the TEAM. If its Johnson tell him to fall in step or show him the door at the end of the season. If it's Knowles, do the same. It does appear to be problems between those two. It has shit to do with loyalty when it hurts the TEAM. LJ has had a great career, personally I think his best years have passed. The way the defensive line is playing over the past several years is proof even before Knowles showed up. The talent and depth are there as well to include the inconsistencies. You can hang your hat on the Bosa's and Young for so long. That talent was already there.
Day is the CEO of Ohio State football. It is his responsibility to get the right coaches to do the job. If you look at the results Johnson is not getting the job done. Just for the record I am NOT in the fire Day camp but so far Day's legacy is not looking very good. Just like Urban wasted all the talent on the '15 squad by promoting the incompetent duo Beck and Warriner, Day wasted CJ by hiring Combs.
I'm not in the fire Day camp either. Granted he's fallen short in some key games but it's on players as well as assistant coaches and coordinators to ensure the right people are in the right positions and executing the plays. Sometimes I think he tries to hard to make the perfect plays and he overthinks. While it is easier said than done, play a little loser and relax, I know the pressure is on but he has to block out the background noise and allow Chip and Jim to execute the game plans and chime in when adjustments need to be made. Simple shit like play Innis more at WR. Or get more creative on defense on blitz packages or position packages. Sometimes the defense looks to mechanical. Kind of like they did in the 2nd half of the Oregon game.
Until they can find someone that can do better than the existing coach, you never fire until you have a plan for a BETTER replacement.
You can't affect a good passer without pressure. In case you have'nt noticed Ryan Day always announces the new coach the same day he says goodby to the old one
fremontguy
What happened to the guy they brought in to help him
fremontguy
First series coming out of second half, third and ten, we get pressure with 4.
before the snap blackledge says ‘they don’t like to blitz…’
If he knows then Oregon knows.
Knowles sends in 4 pass rushers.
6 guys pick it up. Completion in the zone.
Sending a 5th guy on a delay ends the drive.
It’s a Knowles thing. Not Johnson.
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OSU will win title this year - Dr R, 10/13/24
Every year we find another position coach to take the blame for a team that since 2019 hasn’t played aggressive. We get attacked on defense we don’t do the attacking. The offense dictates how we play we don’t make a team do anything. It’s the culture plain and simple.
Buckeye4life
2.5 seconds to release the ball. And we want to blame Larry? It's by design. No more 5 and 7 step drops. Get real man. Should we fire Chip Kelly for Judkins fumbling while we are at it?
Bullets will be back to save the season, and Stroud's dignity.
OSU is Currently 17th in the Nation in sacks at 3.8 per game, Georgia 85th at 1.6 per game, Oregon 26th at 2.6 per game,.
Sani
0 Sacks in the game that actually needed sacks. Don't care if they get home against Akron and Iowa.
How firm thy friendship
Oregon got 1 sack. Let’s not act like they did something great.
They did not play great defensively either. And I think our offense looked pretty good. My point is 0 sacks is not good enough. 1 sack could have been the difference in a game like that.
How firm thy friendship
They were missing their #1 pass rusher and weren't supposed to have the best defense since 2021 UGA like we were told all off season. They also forced a turnover, were better on third down, and forced the same amount of punts in less posessions...
10 years ago it felt like osu could hang it’s hat on having two of the top three or four DE in the conference. They probably have two of the top ten right now and neither is top three.
The missing pash rush has been the most consistent theme in all of these top matchups. Penn state the last 3 years has been the outlier as the DL has pretty much dominated them every year.
LJ has had a long leash for good reason, but a 4th straight season with this is getting to be out of control. It’s time for something to change.
If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!
If these latest reports are accurate about Knowles and LJ bickering over defensive philosophy, then yes, Johnson needs to go.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Latest? That’s 3 year old news being regurgitated after a loss.
Are we to believe that where there’s smoke there’s fire? Day wanted Knowles to run his defense. If there is pushback from a position coach, even one with LJs cache, he shouldn’t be employed to sabotage the defense. Johnson would rather lose with his style than win with someone else’s style. That mentality has to be removed
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Smoke? Where at? All I see is the same ones saying it from 3 years ago. It literally started when Knowles was brought in and he put Jack sawyer in the JACK. It’s not new news. It’s fan banter fueled by lazy podcasters. It may have been an issue in the beginning but not now after all this time. No HC would let that go this long. Common sense
Is he still alive? It's almost Noon on Tuesday. I expected more from the Keyboard11Warriors...
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OSU will win title this year - Dr R, 10/13/24
Bring in Vrabel to run the defense and Knowles to defensive consultant and talent acquisition coordinator.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Yes, most fans have thought he should have been gone a year or two ago but every year we keep him around too long and then panic when we think we'll lose DL recruits. LJ isn't developing like he used to and he seems to have an inability to dial up schemes and stunts to help his players get home. When his players aren't winning one on one everytime, we get what we saw on Saturday.
Go for two only because you can't go for three
Austin Ward mentioned on 97.1 this afternoon that there has been some friction/disconnect/frustrations in the defensive coaches room, even prior to Knowles showing up. He indicated the its not necessarily a Johnson vs Knowles thing but something he's been told has been going on for a few years. So does that indicate Johnson is the wrench in the machine or ongoing poor leadership on the defensive side of the ball? It does seem weird Combs fell on his face & now Knowles is struggling as well. Austin starts at 2:33.00
I’m confused on who else it could be if not Johnson. He’s the only guy left from before Knowles showed up.
Yeah. What he is saying is that isn't just Johnson vs Knowles.
It is Johnson vs anyone who has any other ideas about what to do with the DL than him.
That's exactly what this sounds like. But ppl still won't believe it's a problem even though it's from the ppl with inside access to the team who have been reporting this for like 2 3 years now
Larry Johnson is an old dog that won't learn new tricks and will bite anyone who tries to make him learn new tricks. It's solely Ryan Day's fault for not putting him down. Day needs to grow a pair and be a $10M coach for once in his life and fire Larry once and for all. This saga is a clear display of weak leadership from Ryan Day
And I think Johnson is still upset that he has been passed over for DC multiple times.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Yeah if what he's saying is true and this has been going on before Knowles then johnson is the common denominator in all this.
It can only be LJ and other previous coordinators. There is no other common denominator here besides LJ unless Austin is implicating Day as also being responsible for the defensive woes. If I recall, Day insisted on running a single-high scheme prior to Knowles arriving. That may be why Austin is trying to be vague.
Retire no, but we he take a demotion and stay, doubt it???
The game has passed him, this isn't 10 years ago when guys with the sort of athleticism we have on the defensive line could just routinely beat slow most unathletic slobs.
You have to be creative, run stunts. move guys around, show different formations..
He doesn't want to do any of that..
It's Coombs all over again.. he should have demoted last year, but because of what he has meant to the program and just can't seem to do it..
You are paying Knowles to run the defense.. let him run the defense.. not whatever it is we have right now where its Knowles calls the defense but has to react to whatever Johnson wants to do.. its stupid..
Go Bucks!!!
If what you say is true. This is a failure on Day. I’m not liking the direction this team is going under Day anymore.
LJ was rumored to be retiring, but the recruiting was going to take a hit. Do you think LJ agreed to stay around under the terms of
"sure, I've done it my way for decades but I'll change my ways now and continue to help you out"
OR
"I'll stick around and keep your recruits coming, but we run the DL my way".
Which of those two is more likely?
Recruiting isn't good enough to use that as an excuse to keep Larry around. Day is just placating LJ because maybe Ryan Day just can't bear the possibility of a legend like Larry Johnson leaving Ohio State on bad terms? Day seems like the kind of guy that really cares if people in his own building like him or not. Respect > popularity
It was time at least 3 years ago. He's been turning 5 stars into 3 stars for a while now
I can’t wait til this fanbase gets their wish and he retires so I can see who the next scapegoat will be. Because there will be a new one
I'll join ya in the down votes...because you're right.
Buckeyes don't go undefeated...everyone needs fired. It's an annual thing.
A real man makes his own luck.
-Billy Zane in Titanic
What has been won recently to warrant not being upset?
How firm thy friendship
Since Chase Young here are the dline guys we recruited (excluding freshmen) and their 247 consensus ratings, What an amazing list of recruits! Here's a little game ... name the ones that turned into game changers. Name the ones that offenses feared. If they're still here, name the ones that are sure-fire, can't-miss NFL prospects.
Taron Vincebt - 20
Tyreke Smith - 34
Tommy Togiai - 55
Tyler Friday - 93
Antwuan Jackson - 1 (Juco Prospect)
Javonte Jean-Baptiste - 219
Zach Harrison - 22
Mitchell Melton - 184
J T Tuimoloau - 2
Jack Sawyer - 6
Miachael Hall - 37
Tyliek Williams - 124
Omari Abo - 73
Kenyatta Jackson - 98
Hero Kanu - 118
Caden Curry - 141
Jason Moore - 75
Tywone Malone - 120
Kayden McDonald - 136
Joshua Mickens - 144
Will Smith - 165
I thought Knowles himself hast stated that he isn’t worried about sacks and the #1 job of his DL is to contain and stop the run. Maybe this is the run between him and Larry. Maybe it’s more Knowles than it is Larry.
Go Buckeyes!
Well, his DL didn't stop Gabriel from walking in a TD. I agree though, Idk if it is Larry or Knowles or both, something has to change.
How firm thy friendship
Because JT goes off script and plays hero ball on a play where the RB probably loses 3 yards if he keeps contain.
I've seen breakdowns where JT might've been coached to attack the mesh point to force decision and Simon was actually keeping contain on the QB keeper.
The first isn't Knowles fault if JT goes off script, the second on the coaches.
I tend to believe JT played hero ball trying to make a big play but he was so decisive at attacking the mesh point it could be option two.
Doubt we ever know 100% either way.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I’m listening to Dave biddle right now and of course he’s fanning the flames on this once again. His words “there’s definitely a disconnect. I can see it. Day will keep it in house but my sources tell me it’s there. I can’t tell you what the disconnect is or if it’s on Knowles or Larry Johnson but I just know it’s happening…” THIS is the crap where bad takes are born from. No insight or details. Just flinging shit against the wall. Don’t be a biddle: be better
I don't know how much of what Biddle said is BS, but I know I love your last sentence.
I'm not concerned about the sacks, but I am concerned about our lack-luster pass rush. Knowles came here with his vaunted "jack" idea, but really hasn't been able to implement it because of LJ's line strategy. There is disconnect between the two and it's up to Day to get it resolved but quick. Our blitzes are non-existent, our line movement is non-existent, our stunts are non-existent. A lot of coaches would kill to have half as good of a defensive personnel as we have and we're tossing it down the drain because of a disconnect between 2 defensive guys, where Knowles should be in charge...period! It's up to LJ to get the guys ready for any situation and teach them the proper techniques to blitz, stunt and shift on the line. Knowles as the DC determines the strategy and what defense should be called.
Day is letting friendship get in the way of business.
It's not like Knowles doesn't know how to get sacks out of a defense. In his penultimate year at Ok St his team was 21st in sacks. In his final year they were third. And that's with talent that presumably not nearly as good as what the Buckeyes have.
I appreciate and respect LJ so much for his time at Ohio State, but I am firm in my belief that the DL and OL could probably both use different voices in those rooms. It's not that he hasn't done well, I just think the game maybe passed him by.
The Excellence of Execution, the Best there is, the Best there was, the Best there ever will be!
Questioning firing folks (perhaps warranted?)
But what about the guys that are in the end responsible for doing their job? Do we sit the lineman? Credit it to not giving enough effort?
A real man makes his own luck.
-Billy Zane in Titanic
Good recruiter, but he hasn't developed anyone in a really long time, and even then it's hard to know if guys like the Bosas and Young were just too big to fail, with or without him.
Well that made me depressed. That's more than we've ran in 2.5 years here.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I'm surprised no one has done a side by side comparison of the OkSU and OSU defense when defending similar concepts. It'd be nice to know what the defense should look like with the Jack compared to what we are running.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Not sure if it's coaches, players or scheme but I do know Im tired of having to discuss the defenisve problems. Day is piad a lot of money to figure it out. Get if fixed Ryan or it will be fixed for you.
If not now, when?
Day is a massive part of the problem here. If he was going to do anything about Larry, he would've done it by now. I think LJ leaving Ohio State on good terms with the program and Day is more important to Ryan than doing what's right for the team. You can't say you want to meet the Ohio State standard (beat TTUN, win the B1G, win the national championship) and keep a disrespectful, insubordinate, washed up old man that has been kneecapping the defense for years.
Either Ryan Day wants to win a national championship this year or he wants Larry to leave Ohio State on good terms with him and the program. He can't have both. He was never going to get both. I think Ryan has made his choice. He'd rather stroke Larry's ego than win at the highest level. Let's see how happy the boosters are with Day at the end of the season when their $20M team doesn't win it all because the head coach was too soft to fire Larry Johnson
This is my opinion, and I've said it before...Knowles is the coordinator of the back 7 only. He must play every snap with at least 4 DL. He is allowed to incorporate them in zone pressures where they drop into coverage. Whether Knowles can dictate DL alignments, gap assignments, stunts, twists, pinches, etc. I am not so sure. I bet he has some say, but I tend to believe he is constrained by how Johnson wants to coach and deploy his DL.
Knowles has made adjustments. He has played 4-2-5, 4-3-4, 4-1-6, and even 5-man bear fronts. Aside from the scUM games (which are tainted), he has adjusted nicely to stopping BIG 10 run heavy attacks. Against lesser opponents we have been dominate and the statistics bear that out. We have played zone and man, press and off coverage. We have dropped 8 or 9 and we have also blitzed 6 or 7. But the fact is, Knowles is not running running his true scheme. He was brought in due to his success at Oklahoma State. He is not running that same defense. This is fact. Why bring in a coach if you are not going to let him run his stuff? His scheme was tailored to combat Big 12 spread offenses. Offensives that are very similar to what we saw from Oregon. Offensives that every college team, aside from dinosaurs like Iowa, are trending towards.
The game is won at the LOS. If what I suspect is true, Knowles is limited in how he can attack the LOS. This basically distills the defensive performance down to whether or not Johnson's DL unit consistently wins their matchups. In big games, they simply have not.
If we are going to reach our goals this year, we must create more pressures. Sacks are no longer the key stat in today's game. Pressure rate is. Pressures lead to misreads by the QB, incompletions, tipped balls, INTs, and yes sacks or possibly forced fumbles.
Yes, we have improved in sacks so far this year....though none against Oregon. Yet, I believe we are allowing opponents to complete 64% of their passes and we have really only faced 1 proficient passing team in 6 games. That team, Oregon, completed 67% of their passes. Basically on par with what we have allowed all season. We are ranked 72 nationally with just 4 INTs. We are simply not creating enough pressure and confusion at the LOS for opposing QBs on passing plays.
Johnson is coming to the end of his illustrious career. I hope he has a glorious end. But if our coaches cannot get on the same page, it will be an ugly one.
It has been time for LJ to move on. I imagine LJ and Frye are gone at the end of the year.
HE'S STILL ALIVE?!??!?!?!!?
IT'S WEDNESDAY!!!!!
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OSU will win title this year - Dr R, 10/13/24
Name me one place where a lessor employee calls the shots over his boss? I really think Larry is hamstringing this defense. He’s too stubborn to allow Knowles run his defense. It’s almost like Larry thinks he’s untouchable and doesn’t seem concerned about Day pulling him into the office and chewing him out. I really think Day is petrified at the thought of losing Larry, because of the talent he pulls in. But let’s face it, Larry isn’t going to coach forever and Day should have had a successor. If some guys transfer because of it then so it.
Johnson also isn't bringing in enough talent or players in general to be safe from being held accountable for his behavior. This situation is on Day being a pussy for letting LJ get out of control by potentially tanking yet another possible national championship caliber team for whatever stupid reason Ryan has for letting this fester for so long. He's got to be afraid of pissing off Larry and making him leave the program on bad terms, which for whatever reason, Ryan prefers to sacrifice his program to avoid that from happening at all costs. Looks like he's gonna get the best of both worlds where OSU might not succeed this year because of the helpless pass rush AND LJ leaves Ohio State in disgrace! Great job, Coach Day!
Is this not on Day for not bringing in a DC whose philosophy aligns with his DL coach who has been here for how many years now? And then if he REALLY wanted Knowles to be the guy... also his fault for not identifying that LJ remaining on staff would be an issue? Gives him an extensions instead? He gets paid tons of money to make these kinds of decisions.
I've thought that for years now. He may have recruited some good names, but I don't recall amazing Dlines at Penn State, nor since Bosas and Young, who were already great, left.
we can shit on LJ for alot... but PSU had literal elite DLs under Johnson , did he produce alot of nfl talent ? not always, but PSU DLs were always top 5 in the nation
I've thought that for years now. He may have recruited some good names, but I don't recall amazing Dlines at Penn State, nor since Bosas and Young, who were already great, left.
So many of you whine like bitches. It's insane. You don't know dick about what Larry Johnson is, or isn't doing.
We lost a football game. These are college players. We are as talented as any of the top 5-7 teams in the country, and you're bitching about it.
Just STFU already.
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OSU will win title this year - Dr R, 10/13/24
I just want someone to step up and run the defense. If feelings have to be hurt or someone has to go then so be it.