“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”
What bothers me the most is that this Browns' team has no spark on offense.......we have scored under 20 points in every game. It's not all DeShaun Watson's fault, but it does start with him. I don't see any sign of him getting better. When the receivers are not dropping passes, DeShaun is off target in some cases by a mile......balls thrown 10 feet over WR's that are wide open, or balls thrown into the ground.
The defense has its share of blame also, but not as much. Yesterday gave up too many big plays to the Commanders, which in the past few years has been a thorn in the side of the D. The body language of the whole team looks negative......especially the WR's, who look frustrated with Watson.
The run game is almost non-existent, certainly not enough to keep opposing D's honest. Every team overwhelms our O-line and pours into the backfield, harassing Watson. What was once a great O-line has evolved into Swiss cheese.
I wouldn't fire Stefanski, because he has done an admirable job overall. He has a QB that has his best days behind him, a porous O-line, no running game, and WR's that lead the league in drops.
Andrew Berry is the one who put this team together, and Stefanski can only deal with what he's given. OC Ken Dorsey is not giving anybody visions of Lindy Infante (OC in the 1980's.......great Browns' offense).
So many problems......now the schedule really ramps up.......Up through Washington, this was supposed to be the easiest part of the slate......it looks like we'll go 0-6 in the North. I predicted 11-6, and I look like a complete fool on that.
Browns are hogtied with Watson's contract. They gambled and lost. Now you just have to do the best you can with what you have available. Meanwhile, Haslam has his hand out asking the taxpayer for a billion dollars to build his new stadium.
The route concept of quadruple slants on 3rd and long yesterday has me thinking someone is purposefully sabotaging this offense. Not even a middle school coach would have concocted that shitstain of a play.
You can't fix stupid- Haslam is the guy who wanted Watson and paid out the arse to get him. Imagine if he had kept Baker until he was healthy or held on to those draft choices and got CJ. Anything would be better than what they did- pay hundreds of millions on a low-character guy that the team doesn't believe in. They have to give Jameis a try though he is no savior.
The only time the Brown's offense resembled a pro unit was when Flacco was at the helm. Haslam has ruined an already fragile organization. I'm numbed by it and won't even watch until significant changes are made. Benching Watson is a start.
And while we see our Browns falling down, DTR sits, and sits, and sits. Andrew Berry drafted him in the 5th round, but there's no evidence whatsoever that they're going to try and develop him. Can he really be any worse than DeShaun? I seriously doubt it. He led us to a win over the Steelers last year......and Jameis Winston is not the future QB of our Browns.
The thinking heads are going to have to sort out the QB situation as the season progresses, but right now it looks like they're not budging on Watson as the starter, and this pretty much means that we're headed for a season that had so much hope but is going to end up another disaster.
So the saying goes, if you don't have a QB, you don't have a football team.....and right now that's where our Cleveland Browns are.
Stephanski is an outside zone/west coast disciple which is not Watson’s strength. Dorsey was brought here to play more towards Watsons strengths but Dorsey isn’t calling the offense. Stephanski is calling an offense he isn’t as familiar with. Letting Dorsey call the game might bring better rhythm to the offense.
That’s at least how it’s being spun. I think it’s a crock of shit and we’re fucked regardless.
That’s at least how it’s being spun. I think it’s a crock of shit and we’re fucked regardless.
Bingo. If Dorsey was well sought after, he could have been hired as a bigger splash somewhere else. His offense is certainly not going to cure what ails this team. A complete overhaul should be seriously considered at this point. Trade off any players worth a damn and get picks because that’s their only option now. The schedule gets exponentially more difficult from here. The offensive line is the worse in the league, the QB is the worse in the league. Nick Chubb coming back isn’t going to salvage this season. Trade Amari and I shudder to say, Myles Garrett and Ward as well.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Trickle down incompetence. The Watson trade / contract is a like throwing a lead weight out to a guy dawg paddling in Lake Erie. You not only over paid for what you got,you have issues for years. In addition to getting Watson, by giving up three first rounders you don't have two if not three starters in the current line up, all on rookie contracts.
Berry and the rest of the organization knew last year offensive tackle was an issue, Wills isn't the answer, Jones is still a project, Hudson isn't the answer and no one knew what the status of Conklin would be. Instead they did not get a high profile tackle in free agency, nor did they draft a tackle anywhere in the draft, instead they drafted a guard / center.
They lose one of the best offensive line coaches in the game and his replacement is not getting it done either.
They might as well not even had training camp / exhibition games, for some reason Stefanski thought getting actual or even preseason game reps was not important. Let's just sit the guys out and hope on week one some light comes on, well some one forgot to install the light bulb. This team is in no better shape even if Chubb was in the lineup week one. He doesn't take sacks. throw inaccurate passes, drop catchable balls, No one really knows what effect Dorsey has on the offense, Stefanski has always been a control freak and I don't see him letting go of play calling.
This Browns team is much more disappointing because the investment in players. When Hue no clue Jackson was here, we pretty much knew the team was going to suck. The extremity of suckitude is what was so eye opening.
This iteration of the Browns was supposed to at least compete for a playoff spot again. Watson has been the single biggest bust at QB in modern NFL history. If you factor what was given up for this guy. I know the Haslam’s are trying to win, but at some point it’s not even about whether you want to win. It’s about is it even worth trying to win without some self reflection. I don’t think the Haslam’s have any self reflection on anything. Nearly every newsworthy signing they make seems to blow up in their face. Some people don’t have misfortune. They ARE the misfortune
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
"#Browns coach Kevin Stefanski won't surrender play calling: We're constantly looking at what we can do better. I'm comfortable with the amount of collaboration we have right now on the headset. I want to stress it is a collaborative effort."
Not much else you can say in a presser. For me, the only annoying quotes are the usual, "I need to review the film" stuff. No you don't. You saw with your own eyes that Watson looked like ass today.
I agree it’s not the easiest to become some great orator at a press conference but I think the words are hollow because nobody sees the team getting better. Every week it’s the same shit. No improvement and no sense of urgency anywhere on the team so fuck them
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Don't they teach anyone to actually wrap on tackles anymore? That one 8 yard run by Philly I think at least five guys just tried to knock the runner down instead of anyone wrapping
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
250 million dollar quarterback? They still haven’t scored over 20 points a game this year? Who in the hell thought this was a good idea to sign him? Fire his ass now, and if it was the owners idea, then he must be the dumbest gullible owner in the NFL.
What’s the path forward now? As much as I think he’s a good coach, Stefanski seems unwilling at best to change anything, while saying every week they’re “looking at everything they can to improve” or “we just have to keep working at it”, and the cycle repeats the next week. If this continues, the Browns may lose 15 games this year. What’s the point where a change is made, or are they tanking already?
What’s the path forward now? As much as I think he’s a good coach, Stefanski seems unwilling at best to change anything, while saying every week they’re “looking at everything they can to improve” or “we just have to keep working at it”, and the cycle repeats the next week. If this continues, the Browns may lose 15 games this year. What’s the point where a change is made, or are they tanking already?
I find it odd that the lead article on the cleveland.com sports section states "Browns self-destruct in 20-16 loss to Eagles, fall to 1-5 as their season starts to slip away"
My Dudes, the season hasn't started to slip away. It was already lost before this game even started.
Another dreadful performance by the Browns' offense.......6 games down, and still haven't scored at least 20 points in a game. No surprise that we're now 1-5 and in the basement of the AFC North.
You want to keep playing Watson just because they owe him money? Putting the off the field stuff to the side, he looks washed... Winston is just a different version of Watson, and I have ZERO interest in DTR.. The draft class is pretty garbage, free agency is going to be garbage.. NE pivoted to Maye, Brissett is still young, knows the offense and this team needs to just do the freaking game manager thing.
He's going to be available... and I just love him as a plan B...
I'm open to listening to a better option.. who is under center when the inevitable happens, they move on from Watson..
No I want the Browns to keep losing because this season isn't salvageable, there is zero reasons to believe next season will be any better and even if it was Jacoby Brissett isn't digging us out of this hole.
I lived through 1-31, somehow this is worse, but I can live through another tank. The Browns need a restart and get to a point where it's a feasible dead cap number to cut Watson in 2 years.
You don't want to start winning at this point. Best case you get to 6-7 wins?? You gotta go full tank now and get a good draft pick. If you don't love the QB's then trade back or take the best available. This season is over.
I[m not talking about this season. Browns have 3 more games before the deadline and the season is already over.. I'm talking about a guy who's available you can win with next season. The Watson experiment is nearing the end of the line, he may still be on the roster and you have to give yourself a chance to win in 2025.
But I get it, they'll tank and then take Deion's kid and when that goes horribly wrong, because it will, they'll be back at the same spot again... big a game manager and build around that... this isn't hard...
They’re not sniffing a QB this draft because Watson has to play next year. There’s no way to get rid of him without attaching first round picks to him, which won’t happen because the Browns need the players. There’s no winning next year unless a miracle happens where Watson isn’t the QB. Also Brissett is hot ass, I’m not sure why you think he’s the answer.
The tank has started. The quicker we all realize this the easier it’ll be to stomach.
I could see any of Bitonio, Ward, Teller, Smith, Newsome.
They should just trade everyone they can, make Watson play his contract out, keep trading out of their picks for more picks until Watson is finally gone and then start the rebuild. Don't want to let the Watson stink rub off on any rookies.
Njoku is one, Delpit/Jeudy/JOK just resigned so probably not. Chubb would fit the "older player/FA/later part of their contract" archetype that would be good enough to move.
The trade itself is a win for the Browns, got a 3rd round pick out of a receiver who is starting to go downhill (or he will turn it around because he isn’t playing with a bum anymore). Either way, that’s a solid asset for them.
Watson is a war criminal. Him and Haslam are the reason the Browns will be undergoing yet another rebuild. Wasted 2 HOF’s and a bunch of pro bowlers careers.
I think Bitonio has a good chance, not first ballot but should get in. Chubb though is going to need another 5 good years that I just don’t know he has on his knees. It sucks that he missed two of his prime years with such a bad injury.
I just wish they could have gotten it to a conditional 2nd based on play.
now it’s time to trade jeudy and chief. Then you need to have a heart to heart with the defense and see who wants to go. If Myles doesn’t want to spend the rest of his career in a rebuild then you do the respectable thing and trade him. Then you start fishing and see who wants any of our secondary, shop JOK and any of the DL.
Question: is there anyway the Browns can use the current (24-25) cap space towards the balance of Watson's contract? I think they have approximately 26M avail this season depending on what they have left after the Cooper trade. For lack of a better term, give it to him as a bonus for a lost season this year. I'm not sure how this would work unless the intent of the restructuring is to avoid paying him.
They've lost 3 years due to Watson, they will likely lose next year too unless they get lucky with a 1st round QB. That's 4 seasons lost due to Watson, yikes!
Watson would have signed someplace else if we didn’t sign him. The financials might have looked different but in the end it would have been a similar deal for another franchise.
My issue with the Watson situation is not that we signed him, not what we gave up and not the financials. It’s the wasted time.
Time wasted in momentum. Time wasted when the Steelers were a little down. Time wasted on Garrett’s, Chubb’s, Cooper’s deals. Time wasted with a top notch run game. Time wasted with this defense. This offensive line. Time on Watson’s contract leading to Flacco being let go who might have been the best QB we’ve had in decades and best fit for this team.
I completely agree. The one timing positive is that while NO ONE who follows the Browns wants this, the AFC was stacked with great QBs and playoff teams to have to battle through. The NFC on the flip side has had much more parity at the top.
With Amari Cooper now in Buffalo, the #Browns touchdown leader so far in 2024 is none other than backup safety Rodney McLeod with 2. pic.twitter.com/XKtto1PlPt
— The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast (@thedawgspodcast) October 16, 2024
This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.
MG is looking like Joe Thomas part 2. He's AllPro, Hall of Fame type career playing on mediocre/bad teams. I know they won't trade him but kind of wish they would for his sake.
If the Browns end up in the top 5 of the draft, either they should draft a QB or trade the pick for some more picks later on. Me personally, I would take a QB if the pick is in the top 5. Carolina still has Bryce Young, Jacksonville has Trevor Lawrence, so that's 2 teams that could be above Cleveland in the draft order and most likely won't pick a QB. So the Browns might have the best position to take Shadeur Sanders, Quinn Ewers, or Jalen Milroe, with those 3 being the most likely QB's taken high in the 1st round. Of course some teams might move up to be above the Browns, maybe the Raiders or the Titans.
Even though this season is headed for disaster, in all honestly Andrew Berry has a pretty good record of drafting. The DeShaun Watson signing may have been more Jimmy Haslam then Berry. Of course Berry had to sign off on it if Haslam demanded to sign him.
If we end up trading out of the high 1st round, I would say that getting some offensive line help should be a top priority. DeShaun certainly hasn't played well, but the Browns lead the league in allowing sacks, so the offensive issues aren't all on DeShaun. Plus the running game has been very pedestrian, another reason to bolster the O-line.
I still have to watch Sanders some more but the QB I'm intrigued with is Nussmeier from LSU.
That said, I think the Browns would be better served to let QB-needy teams trade up ahead of them so the Browns can take the best available OT. Will Campbell (LSU) or Kelvin Banks (Texas) probably.
With no good QBs and it looking grim for the foreseeable future (because there's really nothing the FO can do with Watson) I say pound the trenches, get good young players and start scouting future drafts on who the next QB will be. Give the next QB a chance. We see what Williams is doing in Chicago when there's a team around him. Take this time, repent our sins, take our licks and when this Watson debacle is over then proceed rationally. I realize that is a huge and probably unrealistic ask. Don't compound the Watson mistake, he's washed and the Browns aren't winning with him, just plan prudently for the future starting in 2026 or 2027.
Will Campbell and Travis Hunter are the only players I am interested in for this draft. None of these QB’s intrigue me, except for maybe a 2nd round pick on Carson Beck.
Travis Hunter is probably a waste on this team although he probably allows us to move on from Ward when his contract is up.
I think Campbell needs to be the pick right now. Campbell or whichever LT looks the best. I still can't believe we drafted Wills over Wirfs. I didn't think Wills would be this bad but Wirfs fit all AB's boxes of young ascending player who was extremely athletic.
Travis Hunter, imo, is so damn good he would only be a waste because management made him a waste. Which is still entirely possible, but you take him if he’s available. To me, the entire secondary is expendable.
Regardless if they choose Campbell or not, OL needs to a point of focus in the draft.
My confidence is next to zero we’d figure out how to use TH but Stephanski and AB are probably getting fired so who cares. Maybe Ben Johnson will be the next coach when Haslem blames this all on Stephanski. Ben Johnson would know how to scheme up TH.
I think TH would be a full time CB but he’d get some WR packages where he’s playing 20-25 plays a game on offense.
I dont care who he played for, Mason Graham is a 10 year starter and pro-bowler who wont take a play off. I'd draft him in an instant if given the chance.
NHBuckeye: Good call on Nussmeier of LSU. I've watched him a number of times, and playing in the SEC, he's faced a lot of tough competition and has held his own very well.
Undercoverbuck: I hear what you're saying, but I'm hoping we can things turned around sooner than 2026 or 2027. 2025 will be easier to accept if we struggle but show at least a pulse of getting better.
I completely forgot about Nussmeier. He is looking pretty good.
Maybe it's with how bad the offense is currently that's really influencing my opinion but I just don't see how a team with Watson starting is going to compete for anything or even benching Watson. It can't get worse than it is and he's still trotting out to play.
There’s no reason to draft a qb unless it’s a Manning until Watson is done. They won’t sit Watson to play someone else so it would be wasted years when you can draft players in the trenches or some secondary help or some linebackers or wide receivers to have a team of talent ready to go when we finally can give them a qb that can contribute
"We've learned through our exhaustive work that renovating our current stadium will simply not solve many operational issues and would be a short-term approach," the Haslams said. "With more time to reflect, we have also realized that without a dome, we will not attract the type of large-scale events and year-round activity to justify the magnitude of this public-private partnership."
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TL; DR
Tank
Release the albatross
Start over..........again
vacuuming sucks
Unwatchable
“Don’t fear criticism. The stands are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down on the field are the doers, they make mistakes because they attempt many things.”
Watson needs benched.
Berry needs fired.
Stefanski needs gone.
I need a drink...
Leave no doubt
What bothers me the most is that this Browns' team has no spark on offense.......we have scored under 20 points in every game. It's not all DeShaun Watson's fault, but it does start with him. I don't see any sign of him getting better. When the receivers are not dropping passes, DeShaun is off target in some cases by a mile......balls thrown 10 feet over WR's that are wide open, or balls thrown into the ground.
The defense has its share of blame also, but not as much. Yesterday gave up too many big plays to the Commanders, which in the past few years has been a thorn in the side of the D. The body language of the whole team looks negative......especially the WR's, who look frustrated with Watson.
The run game is almost non-existent, certainly not enough to keep opposing D's honest. Every team overwhelms our O-line and pours into the backfield, harassing Watson. What was once a great O-line has evolved into Swiss cheese.
I wouldn't fire Stefanski, because he has done an admirable job overall. He has a QB that has his best days behind him, a porous O-line, no running game, and WR's that lead the league in drops.
Andrew Berry is the one who put this team together, and Stefanski can only deal with what he's given. OC Ken Dorsey is not giving anybody visions of Lindy Infante (OC in the 1980's.......great Browns' offense).
So many problems......now the schedule really ramps up.......Up through Washington, this was supposed to be the easiest part of the slate......it looks like we'll go 0-6 in the North. I predicted 11-6, and I look like a complete fool on that.
Theres a new OC, either dorsey sucks or its taking too long for people to adapt to his system.
Probably both
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Pretty sure the Texans won that trade....
Michigan Cheated
Understatement of the new century
This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.
peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
At least the implosion happened after they stopped owing picks
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Leave no doubt
Browns are hogtied with Watson's contract. They gambled and lost. Now you just have to do the best you can with what you have available. Meanwhile, Haslam has his hand out asking the taxpayer for a billion dollars to build his new stadium.
BubbaGumps
The route concept of quadruple slants on 3rd and long yesterday has me thinking someone is purposefully sabotaging this offense. Not even a middle school coach would have concocted that shitstain of a play.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Fire the GM and the Coach and bring back bill belichick.. it makes too much sense...
Go Bucks!!!
You can't fix stupid- Haslam is the guy who wanted Watson and paid out the arse to get him. Imagine if he had kept Baker until he was healthy or held on to those draft choices and got CJ. Anything would be better than what they did- pay hundreds of millions on a low-character guy that the team doesn't believe in. They have to give Jameis a try though he is no savior.
Screw the Blue (and that gawd-awful yellow)
The only time the Brown's offense resembled a pro unit was when Flacco was at the helm. Haslam has ruined an already fragile organization. I'm numbed by it and won't even watch until significant changes are made. Benching Watson is a start.
Toker2
And while we see our Browns falling down, DTR sits, and sits, and sits. Andrew Berry drafted him in the 5th round, but there's no evidence whatsoever that they're going to try and develop him. Can he really be any worse than DeShaun? I seriously doubt it. He led us to a win over the Steelers last year......and Jameis Winston is not the future QB of our Browns.
The thinking heads are going to have to sort out the QB situation as the season progresses, but right now it looks like they're not budging on Watson as the starter, and this pretty much means that we're headed for a season that had so much hope but is going to end up another disaster.
So the saying goes, if you don't have a QB, you don't have a football team.....and right now that's where our Cleveland Browns are.
Grossi just said on the Really Big Show that Stephanski is expected to give up play calling as a last ditch attempt to save the season.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
How is giving up play calling going to fix the issues that are causing the problems?
BubbaGumps
Stephanski is an outside zone/west coast disciple which is not Watson’s strength. Dorsey was brought here to play more towards Watsons strengths but Dorsey isn’t calling the offense. Stephanski is calling an offense he isn’t as familiar with. Letting Dorsey call the game might bring better rhythm to the offense.
That’s at least how it’s being spun. I think it’s a crock of shit and we’re fucked regardless.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Bingo. If Dorsey was well sought after, he could have been hired as a bigger splash somewhere else. His offense is certainly not going to cure what ails this team. A complete overhaul should be seriously considered at this point. Trade off any players worth a damn and get picks because that’s their only option now. The schedule gets exponentially more difficult from here. The offensive line is the worse in the league, the QB is the worse in the league. Nick Chubb coming back isn’t going to salvage this season. Trade Amari and I shudder to say, Myles Garrett and Ward as well.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Then there is that old saying about putting lipstick on a pig.
BubbaGumps
Yes, putting lipstick on a fucked pig
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Trickle down incompetence. The Watson trade / contract is a like throwing a lead weight out to a guy dawg paddling in Lake Erie. You not only over paid for what you got,you have issues for years. In addition to getting Watson, by giving up three first rounders you don't have two if not three starters in the current line up, all on rookie contracts.
Berry and the rest of the organization knew last year offensive tackle was an issue, Wills isn't the answer, Jones is still a project, Hudson isn't the answer and no one knew what the status of Conklin would be. Instead they did not get a high profile tackle in free agency, nor did they draft a tackle anywhere in the draft, instead they drafted a guard / center.
They lose one of the best offensive line coaches in the game and his replacement is not getting it done either.
They might as well not even had training camp / exhibition games, for some reason Stefanski thought getting actual or even preseason game reps was not important. Let's just sit the guys out and hope on week one some light comes on, well some one forgot to install the light bulb. This team is in no better shape even if Chubb was in the lineup week one. He doesn't take sacks. throw inaccurate passes, drop catchable balls, No one really knows what effect Dorsey has on the offense, Stefanski has always been a control freak and I don't see him letting go of play calling.
I honestly worry about Nick Chubb playing in this garbage offense, behind this offensive line.
Mistah Kurtz, he dead.
This Browns team is much more disappointing because the investment in players. When Hue no clue Jackson was here, we pretty much knew the team was going to suck. The extremity of suckitude is what was so eye opening.
This iteration of the Browns was supposed to at least compete for a playoff spot again. Watson has been the single biggest bust at QB in modern NFL history. If you factor what was given up for this guy. I know the Haslam’s are trying to win, but at some point it’s not even about whether you want to win. It’s about is it even worth trying to win without some self reflection. I don’t think the Haslam’s have any self reflection on anything. Nearly every newsworthy signing they make seems to blow up in their face. Some people don’t have misfortune. They ARE the misfortune
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Stefanski's not giving up playcalling. Nothing is changing.
https://x.com/ScottPetrak/status/1844045727590469872?t=5x7FFGQvY8cdcagBJ...
"#Browns coach Kevin Stefanski won't surrender play calling: We're constantly looking at what we can do better. I'm comfortable with the amount of collaboration we have right now on the headset. I want to stress it is a collaborative effort."
Mistah Kurtz, he dead.
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Not much else you can say in a presser. For me, the only annoying quotes are the usual, "I need to review the film" stuff. No you don't. You saw with your own eyes that Watson looked like ass today.
BubbaGumps
I agree it’s not the easiest to become some great orator at a press conference but I think the words are hollow because nobody sees the team getting better. Every week it’s the same shit. No improvement and no sense of urgency anywhere on the team so fuck them
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
Don't they teach anyone to actually wrap on tackles anymore? That one 8 yard run by Philly I think at least five guys just tried to knock the runner down instead of anyone wrapping
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
How was that not roughing the passer? The Philadelphia defensive guy hit Watson a good 2 seconds after he released the ball.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Martin “Denzel Burke” Emerson
This is definitely where I parked my car.
250 million dollar quarterback? They still haven’t scored over 20 points a game this year? Who in the hell thought this was a good idea to sign him? Fire his ass now, and if it was the owners idea, then he must be the dumbest gullible owner in the NFL.
Double post. Sorry
This offense is worse than the year we went winless.
Only thing that surprised me in this game was that the Eagles looked like ass. I thought they were supposed to be one of the contenders.
BubbaGumps
What’s the path forward now? As much as I think he’s a good coach, Stefanski seems unwilling at best to change anything, while saying every week they’re “looking at everything they can to improve” or “we just have to keep working at it”, and the cycle repeats the next week. If this continues, the Browns may lose 15 games this year. What’s the point where a change is made, or are they tanking already?
What’s the path forward now? As much as I think he’s a good coach, Stefanski seems unwilling at best to change anything, while saying every week they’re “looking at everything they can to improve” or “we just have to keep working at it”, and the cycle repeats the next week. If this continues, the Browns may lose 15 games this year. What’s the point where a change is made, or are they tanking already?
I think it’s been said that his hands are tied being forced to play Watson. So he’s just out there saying ok this is what you want here you go.
I find it odd that the lead article on the cleveland.com sports section states "Browns self-destruct in 20-16 loss to Eagles, fall to 1-5 as their season starts to slip away"
My Dudes, the season hasn't started to slip away. It was already lost before this game even started.
BubbaGumps
Another dreadful performance by the Browns' offense.......6 games down, and still haven't scored at least 20 points in a game. No surprise that we're now 1-5 and in the basement of the AFC North.
Amari Cooper to Buffalo.
Love that for Cooper and for a third rounder that we might not have gotten as a comp pick because of his play this season that's a win.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Good riddance... Now call NE about Brissett...
Go Bucks!!!!
Why would they need Brissett?
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
You want to keep playing Watson just because they owe him money? Putting the off the field stuff to the side, he looks washed... Winston is just a different version of Watson, and I have ZERO interest in DTR.. The draft class is pretty garbage, free agency is going to be garbage.. NE pivoted to Maye, Brissett is still young, knows the offense and this team needs to just do the freaking game manager thing.
He's going to be available... and I just love him as a plan B...
I'm open to listening to a better option.. who is under center when the inevitable happens, they move on from Watson..
Go Bucks!!!
No I want the Browns to keep losing because this season isn't salvageable, there is zero reasons to believe next season will be any better and even if it was Jacoby Brissett isn't digging us out of this hole.
I lived through 1-31, somehow this is worse, but I can live through another tank. The Browns need a restart and get to a point where it's a feasible dead cap number to cut Watson in 2 years.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
You don't want to start winning at this point. Best case you get to 6-7 wins?? You gotta go full tank now and get a good draft pick. If you don't love the QB's then trade back or take the best available. This season is over.
Ayyy!
I[m not talking about this season. Browns have 3 more games before the deadline and the season is already over.. I'm talking about a guy who's available you can win with next season. The Watson experiment is nearing the end of the line, he may still be on the roster and you have to give yourself a chance to win in 2025.
But I get it, they'll tank and then take Deion's kid and when that goes horribly wrong, because it will, they'll be back at the same spot again... big a game manager and build around that... this isn't hard...
Go Bucks!!!
They’re not sniffing a QB this draft because Watson has to play next year. There’s no way to get rid of him without attaching first round picks to him, which won’t happen because the Browns need the players. There’s no winning next year unless a miracle happens where Watson isn’t the QB. Also Brissett is hot ass, I’m not sure why you think he’s the answer.
The tank has started. The quicker we all realize this the easier it’ll be to stomach.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Start of the fire sale - who's next?
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peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
I could see any of Bitonio, Ward, Teller, Smith, Newsome.
They should just trade everyone they can, make Watson play his contract out, keep trading out of their picks for more picks until Watson is finally gone and then start the rebuild. Don't want to let the Watson stink rub off on any rookies.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I figure Garrett and Ward are safe - I was thinking Chubb is safe although he is a FA (pretty sure).
My guesses were Njoku and Delpit, and either Newsome or Emerson
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peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
Njoku is one, Delpit/Jeudy/JOK just resigned so probably not. Chubb would fit the "older player/FA/later part of their contract" archetype that would be good enough to move.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
The trade itself is a win for the Browns, got a 3rd round pick out of a receiver who is starting to go downhill (or he will turn it around because he isn’t playing with a bum anymore). Either way, that’s a solid asset for them.
Watson is a war criminal. Him and Haslam are the reason the Browns will be undergoing yet another rebuild. Wasted 2 HOF’s and a bunch of pro bowlers careers.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
War criminal is a new one which is pretty good.
HOFer's Bitonio and Garrett?
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I was just in Amsterdam the other week, I should have dragged Watson to The Hague with me.
Garrett and then I combined Bitonio and Chubb into one, depending how their careers end.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
I think Bitonio has a good chance, not first ballot but should get in. Chubb though is going to need another 5 good years that I just don’t know he has on his knees. It sucks that he missed two of his prime years with such a bad injury.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I just wish they could have gotten it to a conditional 2nd based on play.
now it’s time to trade jeudy and chief. Then you need to have a heart to heart with the defense and see who wants to go. If Myles doesn’t want to spend the rest of his career in a rebuild then you do the respectable thing and trade him. Then you start fishing and see who wants any of our secondary, shop JOK and any of the DL.
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peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
Question: is there anyway the Browns can use the current (24-25) cap space towards the balance of Watson's contract? I think they have approximately 26M avail this season depending on what they have left after the Cooper trade. For lack of a better term, give it to him as a bonus for a lost season this year. I'm not sure how this would work unless the intent of the restructuring is to avoid paying him.
I think any unused cap can be added to next years cap as rollover. I know it used to work like that but I don’t know if they patched that rule or not.
They've lost 3 years due to Watson, they will likely lose next year too unless they get lucky with a 1st round QB. That's 4 seasons lost due to Watson, yikes!
Ayyy!
Who (other than literally everyone) could have seen this coming?
TL; DR
Nobody when the trade happened. He was a hot commodity.
That's what everyone forgets. We were the only team dumb enough to offer a fully guaranteed contract, though.
Nah, the word was there were teams upset he accepted that deal without the chance for them to match or better it. Atlanta was one for sure.
Watson would have signed someplace else if we didn’t sign him. The financials might have looked different but in the end it would have been a similar deal for another franchise.
Word was that owners were honked at the Browns for screwing up the salary schedule with the guaranteed portion of the contract.
Sani
My issue with the Watson situation is not that we signed him, not what we gave up and not the financials. It’s the wasted time.
Time wasted in momentum. Time wasted when the Steelers were a little down. Time wasted on Garrett’s, Chubb’s, Cooper’s deals. Time wasted with a top notch run game. Time wasted with this defense. This offensive line. Time on Watson’s contract leading to Flacco being let go who might have been the best QB we’ve had in decades and best fit for this team.
I completely agree. The one timing positive is that while NO ONE who follows the Browns wants this, the AFC was stacked with great QBs and playoff teams to have to battle through. The NFC on the flip side has had much more parity at the top.
But yes, what an unmitigated disaster this was.
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peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
BubbaGumps
MG is looking like Joe Thomas part 2. He's AllPro, Hall of Fame type career playing on mediocre/bad teams. I know they won't trade him but kind of wish they would for his sake.
JWilly3
If the Browns end up in the top 5 of the draft, either they should draft a QB or trade the pick for some more picks later on. Me personally, I would take a QB if the pick is in the top 5. Carolina still has Bryce Young, Jacksonville has Trevor Lawrence, so that's 2 teams that could be above Cleveland in the draft order and most likely won't pick a QB. So the Browns might have the best position to take Shadeur Sanders, Quinn Ewers, or Jalen Milroe, with those 3 being the most likely QB's taken high in the 1st round. Of course some teams might move up to be above the Browns, maybe the Raiders or the Titans.
Even though this season is headed for disaster, in all honestly Andrew Berry has a pretty good record of drafting. The DeShaun Watson signing may have been more Jimmy Haslam then Berry. Of course Berry had to sign off on it if Haslam demanded to sign him.
If we end up trading out of the high 1st round, I would say that getting some offensive line help should be a top priority. DeShaun certainly hasn't played well, but the Browns lead the league in allowing sacks, so the offensive issues aren't all on DeShaun. Plus the running game has been very pedestrian, another reason to bolster the O-line.
I still have to watch Sanders some more but the QB I'm intrigued with is Nussmeier from LSU.
That said, I think the Browns would be better served to let QB-needy teams trade up ahead of them so the Browns can take the best available OT. Will Campbell (LSU) or Kelvin Banks (Texas) probably.
With no good QBs and it looking grim for the foreseeable future (because there's really nothing the FO can do with Watson) I say pound the trenches, get good young players and start scouting future drafts on who the next QB will be. Give the next QB a chance. We see what Williams is doing in Chicago when there's a team around him. Take this time, repent our sins, take our licks and when this Watson debacle is over then proceed rationally. I realize that is a huge and probably unrealistic ask. Don't compound the Watson mistake, he's washed and the Browns aren't winning with him, just plan prudently for the future starting in 2026 or 2027.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Will Campbell and Travis Hunter are the only players I am interested in for this draft. None of these QB’s intrigue me, except for maybe a 2nd round pick on Carson Beck.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Travis Hunter is probably a waste on this team although he probably allows us to move on from Ward when his contract is up.
I think Campbell needs to be the pick right now. Campbell or whichever LT looks the best. I still can't believe we drafted Wills over Wirfs. I didn't think Wills would be this bad but Wirfs fit all AB's boxes of young ascending player who was extremely athletic.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Travis Hunter, imo, is so damn good he would only be a waste because management made him a waste. Which is still entirely possible, but you take him if he’s available. To me, the entire secondary is expendable.
Regardless if they choose Campbell or not, OL needs to a point of focus in the draft.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
My confidence is next to zero we’d figure out how to use TH but Stephanski and AB are probably getting fired so who cares. Maybe Ben Johnson will be the next coach when Haslem blames this all on Stephanski. Ben Johnson would know how to scheme up TH.
I think TH would be a full time CB but he’d get some WR packages where he’s playing 20-25 plays a game on offense.
Guys just special.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
I dont care who he played for, Mason Graham is a 10 year starter and pro-bowler who wont take a play off. I'd draft him in an instant if given the chance.
Go Bucks!!!
He’s legit, I forgot about him but I’d be cool with Graham. Really curious how he tests though.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
NHBuckeye: Good call on Nussmeier of LSU. I've watched him a number of times, and playing in the SEC, he's faced a lot of tough competition and has held his own very well.
Undercoverbuck: I hear what you're saying, but I'm hoping we can things turned around sooner than 2026 or 2027. 2025 will be easier to accept if we struggle but show at least a pulse of getting better.
I completely forgot about Nussmeier. He is looking pretty good.
Maybe it's with how bad the offense is currently that's really influencing my opinion but I just don't see how a team with Watson starting is going to compete for anything or even benching Watson. It can't get worse than it is and he's still trotting out to play.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
There’s no reason to draft a qb unless it’s a Manning until Watson is done. They won’t sit Watson to play someone else so it would be wasted years when you can draft players in the trenches or some secondary help or some linebackers or wide receivers to have a team of talent ready to go when we finally can give them a qb that can contribute
The Browns move to Brook Park is official.
BubbaGumps
B10 Championship game... count me in :)
Go Bucks!!!
"..public-private partnership"
i.e.
"The taxpayer foots the bill for this project. Most of the profits trickle down into my pockets. "
BubbaGumps
Any voter in Cuyahoga County that votes for a 50/50 split on cost should be hit with a baseball bat.
Great, I work about 10 minutes south in middleburg heights. Can’t wait to see what restaurants go in around the area.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Put a tent on this circus!
Haslam: