I know the odds are long, but we can still win this series!! Must win 2 of 3 at Progressive, 3 of 3 would really put the Yankees in a nervous spot going back to New York. It's not like NY has pounded us into the ground.
That's the biggest issue all season...swinging at bad pitches. Makes no sense.
I see the Yankees ABs and everyone of them are disciplined...hence why they lead the league in walks. You have to pitch strikes to them to get them out...they aren't helping you.
You can say Cleveland beat themselves in both games...it was really frustrating...Rocchio dropping that pop fly was huge in the 1st inning...Bo Naylor forgetting how to catch inexplicably in game1, allowing 4 WPs (anyone think that happens w/ Hedges?)
Bo Naylor is giving the team absolutely nothing this postseason...I say catch Hedges from here on out...especially because we need the starters to go 5 innings now...if neither catcher can hit, then go w/ the one that handles the pitchers the best and defends the best.
Well, let's remember even in the movie they didn't show what happened in the World Series after beating the Yankees. Major League 2 says they lost the World Series so nope, that doesn't work either.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Playing with house money now. Made it to the final 4 with a team payroll at about 1/3 of the other 3 teams. Overachievers, no matter the outcome. My goodness, to think they got here without a Shane Bieber.
It is mind boggling the difference. Mets, Yankees, Dodgers combined for 2024 - $860 million. Guardians are at $93 million.
The Yankees have not won a World Series since 2009 and they even missed the playoffs last year. With their annual payroll if they were financial investors their return would be considered so abysmal that any of us would have fired them years ago.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Here is an interesting stat: From 1998 until 2002 opening day, the Indians payroll was 6th, 4th, 8th, 5th and 9th. From that point forward, they were in the bottom. Everyone always talks about small markets, but it does show they were able to be near the top when they chose to be
They were also drawing 3.5 million fans per season back then. Dolan knew this wasn't sustainable. There is a good book by Terry Pluto called "Dealing: Inside the Front Office and the Process of Rebuilding a Contender" that talks about all the inner workings that was going on. I obviously do not have access to the Guardians finances but I would be absolutely shocked if they could afford to maintain a top 10 payroll.
I think their payroll was in the $150 million range in 2017-18 after they signed Encarnacion and when they were paying decent money to Kluber and Carrasco. That was coming off the money they made off three playoff series in 2016, so I would expect payroll to go up a wee bIt next year.
I don't think Guardians fans expect a payroll near the top of the league, but asking them to spend like peer cities such as Milwaukee doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
In 2024 the Guardians are at $93M. Brewers are at $105M. In the two Central Divisions the highest in the American League are the White Sox at $142M (nice return for the money there) then the Twins at $125M. In the NL Central St. Louis is the highest at 179M (another nice return on spend).
Here is the list from April before any in season deals.
The Dolans are worth $4.6 Billion dollars and David Blitzer is worth $3 Billion. They are the 4th wealthiest owner in MLB.
They most certainly could afford a payroll between $150-175 million annually even if they had very minimal revenue...most of these owners make their money from outside business...
They are just cheap and don't care to win a World Series.
LMFAO.....Have the Dolans told you they don't care about winning a World Series? This is the dumbest shit I've read in a long time and that's saying something given how much time I spend on 11W. I will Gauran-fucking-tee you they want to win a WS. And you realize Paul Dolan is not James Dolan right? I have no idea what they could comfortably afford on an annual basis and neither do you but this bullshit of they don't want to win is just fucking stupid. Unless they have come right out and told you this.
When the Browns were reborn the Indians took a big hit in season tickets, single game tickets, corporate sponsorships. The Indians had a small window and almost pulled it winning a few titles.
Some of the players aged out and some decided to leave town via free agency.
They have to get hitting out of more that just Kwan and Rocchio. They have had more than enough chances at scoring, creating a big inning with plenty of base runners but they aren't getting the game changing hits. The severe lack of power is an issue, guys aren't driving the balls into gaps let alone hit home runs. Jose had a solo shot in the ninth but nobody was on,
They fall behind early in the games and it is catch up mode all night adding to the pressure. They get the bases loaded with two outs, yet it brings the teams worst hitter to the plate and since he is the only catcher available they can't hit for him.They used the emergency catcher to hit for the starting catcher earlier in the game.
Young team in a hostile environment isn't the best position to be in, they need to get home, relax and win the next three, can't see them going back to NYC and winning two in a row,
Alex Cobb is out for the rest of the ALCS with a back strain, and Ben Lively has been added to the roster in his place. Good to see Ben get a chance to pitch the other night because he was a big part of why we are where we are right now.
I am like Tiffin2B......I really do believe the Dolan's want to win. Just look at his FO......Chris Antonetti, 2022 MLB Executive of the Year; Michael Chernoff, top notch GM. Paul Dolan may not be the biggest spender, but he knows that if you hire good people to run your business, you can win that way. No one can deny that the Guardians organization has built an admired reputation throughout MLB for the ability to draft and develop good pitching. 5 Cy Young winners since 2000, more than any other AL team. That's the result of a great FO and scouting department. It's not luck, just people with good baseball knowledge and instincts.
It's not easy to win a WS, even getting to the ALCS is really hard. Look at the Yankees.....they haven't won a WS since 2009 and they spend lavishly. The Dodgers have spent more than anybody and they flamed out in the playoffs early the last couple of years.
Paul Dolan didn't exactly get Jose Ramirez or Andres Gimenez on the cheap. Lane Thomas has proven to be a valuable pickup at the trade deadline.......without that GS vs. Skubal, where would we be? Antonetti and Chernoff struck gold on that acquisition.
We Guardians fans all want to win the WS, but my perspective might be different than other fans. I grew up watching the Indians fumble and bumble as the worst organization in MLB. I never thought in my lifetime that I would see my beloved team go to 3 WS and be a consistent playoff participant. The last 30 years has been a joy for me as a Guardians fan. There has been some heartbreak along the way with some tough WS and playoff losses, but I'll take that over being an irrelevant, moribund franchise that anybody who has lived long enough to see how bad things were would hopefully appreciate what the Cleveland Guardians are now.
When Thomas was traded to the Tribe he was brutal at the plate, then something happened and he became a guy who was hitting the ball the way they expected him.
One issue is that they can't get over is having more than just one very good starter on the staff. You can have the best pitcher in the league but if the other four starters are below average you get bounced out of the playoffs. They promote Bibee as the top starter, his inexperience in high pressure situation shows, Cantillo was a nervous wreck out there, Cobb and Boyd aren't going to dominate anyone.
That is one of the issues with being payroll limited, you may have one front line starter but your other starters will be middle of the road guys or guys on contracts before free agency.
Most of the other high profile clubs have very large local tv contracts, that is how they finance the payrolls.
I agree that having a top 5 payroll does not guarantee a WS title but most years, you have a chance to win it given the talent on the team. I read somewhere that 23 of the past 25 WS champs have had a top 10 payroll.
Until the MLB decides to have a salary cap, you need to have an owner that has deep pockets and willing to spend, no matter what it takes
Not to take away from tonight's game, but something is wrong with Clase. Gave up 5 ER the whole season, but 6 ER in the playoffs. I dont know if you let him work through it or maybe bring someone else in to close?
Judge is a freak of nature and hit a 99 MPH cutter on the outside of the plate for a homerun. The hr to Stanton, just like with Carpenter, was a hanging slider.
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I know the odds are long, but we can still win this series!! Must win 2 of 3 at Progressive, 3 of 3 would really put the Yankees in a nervous spot going back to New York. It's not like NY has pounded us into the ground.
Hope is still alive!!
Dear Guardians, please swing at pitches inside the strike zone. - the fanbase
TL; DR
Dear Austin Hedges, please bunt no matter what the situation is.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
And don't swing at pitches outside of the strike zone.
That's the biggest issue all season...swinging at bad pitches. Makes no sense.
I see the Yankees ABs and everyone of them are disciplined...hence why they lead the league in walks. You have to pitch strikes to them to get them out...they aren't helping you.
You can say Cleveland beat themselves in both games...it was really frustrating...Rocchio dropping that pop fly was huge in the 1st inning...Bo Naylor forgetting how to catch inexplicably in game1, allowing 4 WPs (anyone think that happens w/ Hedges?)
Bo Naylor is giving the team absolutely nothing this postseason...I say catch Hedges from here on out...especially because we need the starters to go 5 innings now...if neither catcher can hit, then go w/ the one that handles the pitchers the best and defends the best.
Let's Go Bucks
I agree on if catchers aren't hitting put Hedges back there. Lesser of two evils.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
OSU ALUM 05: You are absolutely spot on. We've made the Yankee pitchers a lot better by doing just that.
Without the movie “Major League” their hasn’t been a season ending celebration in Cleveland for close to 80 years. So I guess it’s “Make Believeland.”
Well, let's remember even in the movie they didn't show what happened in the World Series after beating the Yankees. Major League 2 says they lost the World Series so nope, that doesn't work either.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Wishing Cleveland three jn a row at home and de killah in de Bronx!
Dolans inspired a new wahoo jinx….karma
Yea, it's called not being ready for the bright lights of NYC
Playing with house money now. Made it to the final 4 with a team payroll at about 1/3 of the other 3 teams. Overachievers, no matter the outcome. My goodness, to think they got here without a Shane Bieber.
It is mind boggling the difference. Mets, Yankees, Dodgers combined for 2024 - $860 million. Guardians are at $93 million.
The Yankees have not won a World Series since 2009 and they even missed the playoffs last year. With their annual payroll if they were financial investors their return would be considered so abysmal that any of us would have fired them years ago.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Come on Guards!! Pulling for you from KC.
vacuuming sucks
Cleveland can play need to get some at home but all it takes is for them to get a lil hot
DH7 was Special R.I.P Simba
Just start with one. Go get em Guardians!
Michigan Cheated
Go Tribe!
Leonhard
Here is an interesting stat: From 1998 until 2002 opening day, the Indians payroll was 6th, 4th, 8th, 5th and 9th. From that point forward, they were in the bottom. Everyone always talks about small markets, but it does show they were able to be near the top when they chose to be
Brooks was here...
So was Red
They were also drawing 3.5 million fans per season back then. Dolan knew this wasn't sustainable. There is a good book by Terry Pluto called "Dealing: Inside the Front Office and the Process of Rebuilding a Contender" that talks about all the inner workings that was going on. I obviously do not have access to the Guardians finances but I would be absolutely shocked if they could afford to maintain a top 10 payroll.
Maybe not top 10, but you need to shoot for top 15 in order to truly be a world series contender on a yearly basis
Brooks was here...
So was Red
That would put them in the 160 mil range. Is that doable?
I think their payroll was in the $150 million range in 2017-18 after they signed Encarnacion and when they were paying decent money to Kluber and Carrasco. That was coming off the money they made off three playoff series in 2016, so I would expect payroll to go up a wee bIt next year.
I don't think Guardians fans expect a payroll near the top of the league, but asking them to spend like peer cities such as Milwaukee doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Payroll topped out at $134 mil
In 2024 the Guardians are at $93M. Brewers are at $105M. In the two Central Divisions the highest in the American League are the White Sox at $142M (nice return for the money there) then the Twins at $125M. In the NL Central St. Louis is the highest at 179M (another nice return on spend).
Here is the list from April before any in season deals.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2024/04/03/mlb-team-payrolls-2...
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
The Dolans are worth $4.6 Billion dollars and David Blitzer is worth $3 Billion. They are the 4th wealthiest owner in MLB.
They most certainly could afford a payroll between $150-175 million annually even if they had very minimal revenue...most of these owners make their money from outside business...
They are just cheap and don't care to win a World Series.
Let's Go Bucks
LMFAO.....Have the Dolans told you they don't care about winning a World Series? This is the dumbest shit I've read in a long time and that's saying something given how much time I spend on 11W. I will Gauran-fucking-tee you they want to win a WS. And you realize Paul Dolan is not James Dolan right? I have no idea what they could comfortably afford on an annual basis and neither do you but this bullshit of they don't want to win is just fucking stupid. Unless they have come right out and told you this.
When the Browns were reborn the Indians took a big hit in season tickets, single game tickets, corporate sponsorships. The Indians had a small window and almost pulled it winning a few titles.
Some of the players aged out and some decided to leave town via free agency.
They have to get hitting out of more that just Kwan and Rocchio. They have had more than enough chances at scoring, creating a big inning with plenty of base runners but they aren't getting the game changing hits. The severe lack of power is an issue, guys aren't driving the balls into gaps let alone hit home runs. Jose had a solo shot in the ninth but nobody was on,
They fall behind early in the games and it is catch up mode all night adding to the pressure. They get the bases loaded with two outs, yet it brings the teams worst hitter to the plate and since he is the only catcher available they can't hit for him.They used the emergency catcher to hit for the starting catcher earlier in the game.
Young team in a hostile environment isn't the best position to be in, they need to get home, relax and win the next three, can't see them going back to NYC and winning two in a row,
Jose and Josh have to play like the All Stars they are or the team will bet swept...simple as that.
Jose has never done much in the playoffs...time for that to change
Let's Go Bucks
Alex Cobb is out for the rest of the ALCS with a back strain, and Ben Lively has been added to the roster in his place. Good to see Ben get a chance to pitch the other night because he was a big part of why we are where we are right now.
I am like Tiffin2B......I really do believe the Dolan's want to win. Just look at his FO......Chris Antonetti, 2022 MLB Executive of the Year; Michael Chernoff, top notch GM. Paul Dolan may not be the biggest spender, but he knows that if you hire good people to run your business, you can win that way. No one can deny that the Guardians organization has built an admired reputation throughout MLB for the ability to draft and develop good pitching. 5 Cy Young winners since 2000, more than any other AL team. That's the result of a great FO and scouting department. It's not luck, just people with good baseball knowledge and instincts.
It's not easy to win a WS, even getting to the ALCS is really hard. Look at the Yankees.....they haven't won a WS since 2009 and they spend lavishly. The Dodgers have spent more than anybody and they flamed out in the playoffs early the last couple of years.
Paul Dolan didn't exactly get Jose Ramirez or Andres Gimenez on the cheap. Lane Thomas has proven to be a valuable pickup at the trade deadline.......without that GS vs. Skubal, where would we be? Antonetti and Chernoff struck gold on that acquisition.
We Guardians fans all want to win the WS, but my perspective might be different than other fans. I grew up watching the Indians fumble and bumble as the worst organization in MLB. I never thought in my lifetime that I would see my beloved team go to 3 WS and be a consistent playoff participant. The last 30 years has been a joy for me as a Guardians fan. There has been some heartbreak along the way with some tough WS and playoff losses, but I'll take that over being an irrelevant, moribund franchise that anybody who has lived long enough to see how bad things were would hopefully appreciate what the Cleveland Guardians are now.
When Thomas was traded to the Tribe he was brutal at the plate, then something happened and he became a guy who was hitting the ball the way they expected him.
One issue is that they can't get over is having more than just one very good starter on the staff. You can have the best pitcher in the league but if the other four starters are below average you get bounced out of the playoffs. They promote Bibee as the top starter, his inexperience in high pressure situation shows, Cantillo was a nervous wreck out there, Cobb and Boyd aren't going to dominate anyone.
That is one of the issues with being payroll limited, you may have one front line starter but your other starters will be middle of the road guys or guys on contracts before free agency.
Most of the other high profile clubs have very large local tv contracts, that is how they finance the payrolls.
I agree that having a top 5 payroll does not guarantee a WS title but most years, you have a chance to win it given the talent on the team. I read somewhere that 23 of the past 25 WS champs have had a top 10 payroll.
Until the MLB decides to have a salary cap, you need to have an owner that has deep pockets and willing to spend, no matter what it takes
Brooks was here...
So was Red
Baseball America did a great story on it early this year...
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/to-win-a-world-series-teams-almo...
Only 1 WS champ was outside the top 20, the 2003 Miami Marlins were 25th.
Only 2 others were outside the Top 15...2015 KC and 2017 Hou (who cheated).
Most were in the Top 10 (22 of 31)
Let's Go Bucks
Bottom of the 1st coming up. 0-0
Brooks was here...
So was Red
Another disappointment from the middle of the order with runners in scoring position
At least Boyd looks like he can get through two innings?
This is definitely where I parked my car.
I may have spoken too soon.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
minor victory thanks to yet another Yankee base running error
The Tribe clutch hitting is brutal yet again
It’s painful to watch.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Manzaedo waited and got a ball he could drive
Bottom of the 6th, Cleveland leads 2-1 and a runner at second, 1 out.
Gimenez singles Thomas home, 3-1!
3-1 going into the top of 7
Mental note for opponents pitching staff: J Naylor cannot hit a changeup.
a wasted leadoff walk.
3-1 going into the 8th.
Clase in to try for a 4 out save.
First batter to face is Judge with a runner on first, 2 outs.
Jose Mesa strikes again.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Son of a biscuit, what a fail by Clase.
Ball game.
LMAO you have to be kidding
This is definitely where I parked my car.
What a choke job, unreal.
Vogt needs to stop overthinking shit and let Clase come in during the 9th. God what a choke job.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Damn it man. Monumental choke. Led all game.
Bullets will be back to save the season, and Stroud's dignity.
Wtf.gif
TL; DR
It is hell being a Cleveland fan. Guardians choked this series away, Browns are done. Oh well the Cavaliers start next Wednesday.
Mobley will probably piss me off soon enough lol
This is definitely where I parked my car.
A couple of timely hits and Cleveland could pull it out.
2nd and first, two outs with Fry up.
C'mon Weaver, revert to Cincinnati form.
It is SHOCKING to see him doing this well. More proof of Derek Johnson’s genius, I guess.
Wish granted!
R.I.P. Simba
I really wish Kwan refused to walk and took a hack at something, he was the best chance to drive in Brennan.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
I said the same thing. We definitely needed Kwan to take a shot at shooting the ball through the infield. Lost opportunity.
Fry Daddy goes down swinging. Sigh.
Lights too bright for J Ram this postseason
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Woof
TL; DR
Turn out the lights. . .
Turn 'em back on!
Going to extra innings!
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Who is Darren young?
Early Christmas present from Noel.
Let's Go Bucks
BIG CHRISTMAS
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Pinchhitting for Snow Man.
Let's Go Bucks
Merry Fucking Christmas!
so the two best closers in the AL both get lit up in the same game
we get bonus baseball
You’re welcome for my reverse psychology, I texted my group chat “does Noel even have a hit this postseason?” a pitch before that nuke
This is definitely where I parked my car.
that's the Luke Weaver reds fans loved to see go.
Do they start with the runner on second in the playoffs?
Let's Go Bucks
Thank God, no.
I just got my answer.
Let's Go Bucks
Wow - great game - shocked right now
TL; DR
Naylor hasn’t had to stretch like that since he reached over the dinner table for thirds
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Fry Daddy!!
That was a damn fine game. Good win fellas.
A real man makes his own luck.
-Billy Zane in Titanic
Fry just smoked one for the win
South Park orgasm .jpeg
This is definitely where I parked my car.
holy fuckin shit
Die Living // PT*42
Fryday came early!
R.I.P. Simba
Deep Fryed
Maybe that will be a catalyst. As a great Buckeye once said, “Go crazy, folks! Go crazy!”
Wow, I had no idea of the Ohio and Ohio State connections for Jack Buck.
You learn something new everyday.
Thank you for that tidbit.
Holy COW!!!!! Can't believe those last 3 innings. Incredible play after incredible play
Buckeyes Rule!
Clase better be buying Noel and Fry dinner for a month after bailing him out
He needs a damn sports psychologist after that
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Unbelievable
TL; DR
Still can’t get over that Big Christmas nuke, just absolutely pissed on that ball
This is definitely where I parked my car.
All three home runs by Cleveland were hammered.
Let's Go Bucks
Not to take away from tonight's game, but something is wrong with Clase. Gave up 5 ER the whole season, but 6 ER in the playoffs. I dont know if you let him work through it or maybe bring someone else in to close?
Brooks was here...
So was Red
Judge is a freak of nature and hit a 99 MPH cutter on the outside of the plate for a homerun. The hr to Stanton, just like with Carpenter, was a hanging slider.
That ball should have been at best off the wall. Insane how that carried over
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
On the other hand, the competition is just a tad better at the moment. He'll be fine.
Buckeyes Rule!
Wow. Just wow. Vogt makes some big calls tonight and they paid off. Clase is torched now though. But so is NY bullpen
When telling the truth becomes a revolutionary concept, it’s wise to join the revolution
He threw 15 pitches after not pitching since Saturday. He will be good to go.