I would feel a lot more comfortable trading Allen if they were able to trade into the 2nd round and draft Filipowski to be the backup center for Mobley.
Players such as Deandre Hunter and Miles Bridges (character issues notwithstanding) would be perfect fits for the Cavs without necessarily costing them any of their “core four”.
I think Hunter could be had with the Hawks addition of Risacher and Jalen Johnson's emergence. They did just ship AJ Griffen to the Rockets (for pick no.44) so maybe Hunter isn't looking to be moved. The Hawks will need all three presumably but they've kind of soured on Hunter after his big extension.
Do not want Bridges. Headache is not worth it and he wants to get paid. Let him waste away in obscurity somewhere.
I think Hunter could be had with the Hawks addition of Risacher and Jalen Johnson's emergence.
As soon as they drafted Risacher, my mind went to Hunter. They also can likely resign Sediq Bey at a reasonable rate, given his injury. Meanwhile, they’re paying Hunter $20+ mil a year and despite his talent, I could see them wanting to get out of that contract. Hunter is a good player and a quality 3 and D player who has been languishing in a bad situation. I think a change of scenery would do him a world of good. Something like LeVert’s expiring deal and some menial draft compensation might be enough to get it done, though LeVert’s expiring deal would also likely be the key to any pursuit of Cam Johnson as well.
Love Tyler Kolek in NYK. That screams Thibs guy and is Miles McBride insurance in a few years.
I don’t really care what anyone else thinks, Lebron and Bronny on the Lakers is cool as fuck. It’ll be shades of the Griffey’s playing together and there will be a game where they’re throwing alley oops to each other.
Mobley is on rookie scale for an extension. Not sure what the most he can get is, but I don’t believe it’s the same kind of deal that Mitchell can get - $200+ mil.
My guess is Mobley will get just north of what Devin Vassell got last year. His was 5 years $140 mil, I’m guessing Mobley will slot in around 5 years $160-$170 mil.
Barnes just signed a 5yr 225m (up to 270m). I think a rookie max is 25% but if they get the designated rookie max based on certain criteria then they can make 30% of the cap. Which Barnes did. Then i believe that makes him eligible for the escalators to get to 270m if he’s all pro, mvp, etc.
Mobley for 150-180m over 5ys is what’s being rumored but he can say no if he thinks he’s worth 200m. I don’t think any rookie has turned down the rookie extension but the Cavs won’t low ball him.
Mitchell is 209m/4yr (52.5m per), Mobley hypothetically at 180m/5yr is 36m per. Barnes base was 45m per fwiw.
I would agree if he wasn’t on a rookie deal, not gonna get much in return for that. Don’t really have a choice but to try and develop whatever you can out of him.
I think if Mitchell is signing an extension DG is out of the door and I am OK with that. We saw how the team of clicking when he was out and we saw the results when he came back. Slide Mitchell to the point and maybe get a starting caliber SG.
Truth be told, Mitchell and Garland cannot co-exist. It's not personalities but clash in styles. When, not if, Mitchell signs his extension, I would be shocked if Garland is not traded soon after. One to get him to a team that can net some return and to start planning to pay Mobley. Plus that is where you shoot for that SG compliment to Mitchell.
I probably watched ~15 Cavs games this past season so not a huge sample size but it seemed like Garland would just disappear a ton when Mitchell was also on the floor. He just would just go hang out around the wing and wouldn’t move around to get open.
I wish we would have seen them together on the Cavs, but I am excited to see Bron and Bronny together for no other reason than it is cool and fun and wholesome, on the negative side it makes me feel old as shit.
The Cavaliers could always benefit by adding more perimeter shooting. I watch enough NBA games to know how important the 3ball is in today's Association. The Celtics used the 3ball as a weapon to go on and win the title. They were 1st in the league with 1,351 made 3's, and 2nd in pct. at 38.8. Dallas was 3rd in made 3's, with 1197. Those two played for the title.
OKC was 1st in 3ball pct. at 38.9, while Minnesota was 3rd at 38.7. The T-Wolves made the Western Conference final.
Conversely, there's no doubt that the lack of 3ball ability by Orlando hurt them vs. the Cavs.
Takes NO off the board for Garland, but that seems like a sell-low on Murray with the firsts likely to be from LA next year and Mil in 27. Makes me feel like the price for Hunter wouldn’t be crazy.
They always were asking for a lot and we saw what Bridges was traded for. Now Utah has said they wanted to resign him but if he says no they’ll lose some negotiation power.
OKC should trade for him. They have young players to send back and all those picks. SGA/Caruso/Jdub/Mark/Chet would be a nasty lineup.
That being said about OKC he’s at his best in a high usage position on offense. He probably wouldn’t get that in OKC, but it’d be fun to watch.
It’s a great hire for them and exactly what they need. Detroit is dysfunctional and JB specializes in rebuilds. He’s the perfect coach for where they’re at right now.
Anyone who thought JBB was a nepo hire because his dad works in the front office is sorely mistaken. He’s extremely well respected within the league (well, so was Monty Williams and we just saw how that worked out for Detroit…).
This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone but Chicago is trying to get off from Zach Lavine, even going so far as to attach an unprotected first. Zero teams are biting and that includes the usual suspects who make moves like this. Just for the hilarity of watching these two players on the same court Id love for the Wizards to trade for him and make a starting backcourt of Lavine and Poole.
Apparently the Bills tried to trade him to the GSW for Wiggins and CP3… they laughed, said no and waived CP3 after the phone call. Imagine getting shut down by a team that doesn’t want either player. Now THAT’S an albatross of a contract.
Cross Naji Marshall off the list (27m/3yrs) to Dallas.
Also the Spurs have their PG… Chris Paul says he intends to sign with them. Honestly good for Chris. He’s not going to win a ring in SA but he gets to mentor a young team. Could be instrumental for Wemby and the rest of the young players in SA when they finally start contending. Count SA off the Garland list for the moment. Really looks like no major moves until the trade deadline for the Cavs.
Mavs are dead set on Klay Thompson. Josh Green and Maxi Kleber are rumored to be on the block. Wouldn’t mind the Cavs trying to get Maxi Kleber, even if he’s injured quite a bit. Perfect compliment to both bigs. Only makes 11m a year to boot.
Also Paul George not resigning with the Clippers and everything they gave up for him (all those picks plus SGA becoming a legit top 5 player) might be the worst trade in NBA history.
After this deal is up George will have made over 600m dollars just by playing in the NBA. That doesn’t include any endorsements or anything. That’s unreal.
One of the guys on the NBA Free Agency show I was watching last night said the young top starts of today who are 25 and under (Luka, etc) are going to amass contracts that will end up being over the $1B total dollar mark.
Yes. That is insane. You're worth what people will pay you and by all means everyone should get their money but... there's got to be some correction coming soon right? I've been wondering if there's going to be another round of "amnesty" cuts to let teams get their cap sheets back under control. Maybe the aprons contains this but I have my doubts. NBA owners will never spend responsibly. Just feels like we're about to enter league gridlock again.
Spurs and GSW are heavily involved in the Lauri Markkanen sweepstakes... both would be good fits for him. Selfishly, outside of Cleveland of course, I'd love to see him go to the Spurs. If the Spurs land Mark they could be an interesting team. Whoever the next GM or President of Basketball Ops is for the Cavs I hope he's from San Antonio. They always make the right move even when they suck.
For comedy sake Tobias Harris signed with the Pistons 2yr/56m and all I can think of is the Jessie Pinkman meme of "He can't keep getting away with this!". Highway robbery but get that bag Tobias.
that Free Agency show last night was talking about the Pistons and how with the salary floor they will be forced to pay these kind of short-term, large contracts to stay within the required % of the cap. But yeah, Harris scored big time here.
Ah yes that makes sense. I guess Ivey and Duran aren't eligible for extensions yet either. It would've been more funny if Simone Fonteccio got that bag instead lol. Like if you're going to be a full train wreck commit all the way. Be the best of the worst! Well I guess they've tried that and it's only gotten them the 5th overall pick.
There's some rumblings about the Cavs going after Jalen Smith PF/C of the Pacers. Most will forgiven if they can land someone like that as he complements both bigs and can play either the 4 or 5.
Don’t no what our plan is with the mid level, but I thought that would be the guy for it, and he wouldn’t have even taken all of it.
I’ve supported this front office, but they seem to be asleep at the wheel right now. I expected Mitchell to be locked up a week ago, and the longer that goes on, the less confident I feel.
Feels like Spida is the elephant in the room, maybe that's explains why it feels like they are asleep at the wheel. Everything changes if he isn't sure ( yet ) about a long term deal. You can't make any moves until he's either here long term, or moved. Holding pattern until that gets done one way or the other..
The worst case version... they are dotting the I'd crossing the t's on Spida and Altman is just in full on same roster, new coach, we good mode..
A lot of people signaling Lauri Markkanen move coming... that's the dream imo... somehow move Allen and bring back Markkanen..
The Cavs organization is at a serious crossroads here. They've demonstrated to the fanbase and to the league that they're content, and have little to no options to appreciably upgrade the roster. They don't have a bevy of draft picks or cap space. This team on paper will go no further than the 1st round of the playoffs going forward. Next season, they would do very well to avoid the play-in. I'm very disappointed, and if it weren't for maximum money earned, I wouldn't blame Donovan for wanting out. There is no pathway for him to win anything here. Koby refused to make any trade deadline moves 2 years in a row, and I doubt that will change next February. It's management malfeasance.
I believe Garland has peaked. His flaws are obvious and his weaknesses are problematic. He is what he is at this point, even if he's healthy. I don't have very much hope in Evan being much more than what he is. I gave up on him becoming a physical dominant force down low, and him being able to develop a game beyond alley-oop dunks and point blank range buckets. He isn't even a good FT shooter. JA cannot handle basketball played at the highest level (the playoffs). He shrunk big-time in 2023 and refused to come back from injury and play this year. That's a dawg-less mentality that is embedded in his DNA. I don't blame Donovan for taking his time with the extension, but I cannot imagine that he's pleased with running it back with the same team again. Given what the East looks like now, and for the future, I fully expect Donovan to ask for a trade in the next 12-18 months, provided he actually signs.
Klay Thompson to Dallas. End of an Era in GSW. Not like it's a bad fit with Luka and Kyrie but 3yr/50m for this version of Klay who goes 0-10 in an elimination game...
I like this for Mavs, Klay isn't the old Klay, but he'll be asked to do less in Dallas and can just be a piece and not tasked with doing any of the heavy lifting.
Pretty indifferent about it. In theory it should be a good move and you can rationalize away his two years of struggles but also that just might be him now at this point, which is a non-factor on a contending team. I will say the Mavs is probably better than say the Lakers where there isn't the inherent pressure of playing for the franchise your dad used to play for.
Just a much better situation for where he is at this point in career imo. GSW it was Curry, him and 50 year old CP3 doing almost all of the guard stuff. So much pressure on him to be old Klay..
Not only will he be the 3rd banana, he'll be the 3rd guard as well... he'll need to hit shots, but he'll get so many clean looks compared to what he saw last few years in GS..
Probably a reason to avoid the Lakers as well.. they would have needed more from him at the guard position...
I think the role would be the same, both teams have plenty of other ball handlers to initiate offense, the Mavs are clearly the better team. I just have doubts on whether he can contribute like the Mavs would need him to come playoffs anymore but maybe a change in scenery is all he needs.
Not really important, just something I found interesting and speaks to the value of NBA players and the franchises they play for in the conversation I was having with NH, but
the Boston Celtics majority ownership group, led by Wyc Grousbeck, is planning to make the franchise available for sale. Grousbeck and partner Steve Pagliuca led a group into a purchase of the team in 2002 for $360 million. Since then, franchise valuations have skyrocketed, with the latest teams to sell controlling shares being the Phoenix Suns, which went for $4 billion to Mat Ishbia in February 2023, the Milwaukee Bucks, with Jimmy and Dee Haslem paying $3.5 billion several weeks later, and the Dallas Mavericks, with the Adelson and Dumont families paying $3.5 billion in December.
Also did anyone know that the Haslem's owned an NBA team?
And another good point made by someone else about putting up the team now (not unlike what Cuban did last year) is the viability of regional sports networks. We've seen it with Bally/NEOhio/ect but they struggle in today's media environment and there's an uncertain future for the RSN. Owners who bought "low" might be looking to cash out while franchise value's are so high. It was rumored last year I believe that the NBA was trying out NBATV as the sole provider of NBA viewership and it'd be a pay to watch service not unlike Netflix/Hulu/Disney+ ect. That's still a long ways away though and I haven't heard anything about that anytime recently.
The Boston ownership also doesn't have to pay the huge repeater tax bill or be labeled as the bad guys when that team ultimately gets broken up in as soon as after next year.
Haslam sports group has also been rumored to be first in line if the CBJ ever go up for sale..
I didn't realize they wanted to be the poor man's Stan Kroenke lol.
Celtics will be a "steal" for someone... probably tick up over $5B, but that team/franchise is loaded...
Celtics have one more year before they get his with the repeater second apron. It was always a two year window and luckily for them they got one last season. It will be very difficult for them to maneuver going forward after this year. and they just resigned Derrick White to 126m/4yrs.
I dont think the new ownership will bat an eye at $100M tax hit after paying $5B+ for the team. The tax draft pick stuff doesn't hurt them much either imo, just moving the picks if they don't fall below the apron. That piece of it hurts teams spending and also sucking.
They've done a great job of extending their core. When they lock up JT they can have that team for 4 more seasons, maybe more. They can probably strategically use Horford retirement to drop below apron at some point.
The least shocking update in the history of the NBA.
With the Los Angeles Lakers striking out on three of the top free agents this offseason, LeBron James could now take the full max from the franchise during free agency, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.
LeBron's days of playing for championships or anything meaningful in LA are over. I think he knows that. At this point, he is just chillin and relishing the opportunity of having the power of his team drafting his son.
So, I am no longer convinced Donovan will sign an extension here. This has been taking an uncomfortably long time, and the fact that we have watched several Eastern Conference teams get better, and us standing pat again is NOT a good sign. If you're a superstar franchise player like Donovan, and you see everyone else improving, you cannot be happy. I wouldn't be. If you take away money, there is no reason that Donovan would want to be here.
When someone is "invested" and "very pro Cleveland", but won't sign the extension.....something is going on. I think this is front office speak for "we are trying to leverage a team for an adequate trade" and "we are doing damage control".
He's also said repeatedly that he doesn't want anyone traded from the "core 4". Resigning isn't the issue, it's keeping him here and happy for the entire extension which I have very little faith the front office is capable of doing. He's going to resign and then probably ask to be traded in 2 years.
There is absolutely no way he will play another 2 seasons here. This franchise is going absolutely nowhere. The front office is an incompetent joke. The Cavs will be back in the lottery by 2027, possibly sooner than that. Donovan will be out of here in 12 months or less, regardless if he signs. He has no reason to spend his prime years here, when he’ll never win anything. If that happens, we will need to trade Darius and hope to acquire picks. Evan is not a franchise player and JA is not worth keeping after his contract expires. I fully expect this team to get blown up sooner than you think. By the end of next season, the entire fan base will be calling for the exact same thing. You cannot continue to stubbornly stand pat while everyone gets better and expect to be taken seriously. Koby Altman will be gone after next season.
Nobody is crying lol. I have simply accepted where the franchise is headed. It is what it is. Deep down, you know what I’m saying is true. This team on paper is a 6 seed or 7 seed play-in team, at best. They’ll play either Boston, New York, Philly or Milwaukee in the 1st round and get ran through like the Hawk Tuah chick. This franchise will look unrecognizable in 12 months.
What would be the point of that though? No matter what he says publicly, we've seen the ceiling of that group. He's either all in or he's not. If you are going to sign and trade him, do it now. Why wait until he's almost 30 years old and risk and injury and then you are screwed BIG TIME, and his value could be considerably less for a lots of different reasons. If he's waffling, find a trade partner, move on.. if he's all in, build around him and move past this dumb "core 4" crap... it doesn't work.. we had a back end of the season and the playoffs that proved it didn't work.
Yea I would try and S&T him now too but the FO doesn’t want to make any moves. I would say he “buys in” resigns, is unimpressed the first year, wants out by the next trade deadline and gets traded the following offseason. So roughly 2 years from now.
If the idea of the “core 4” is so obviously bad to us I don’t know how it can’t be obvious to the FO.
It's Monopoly money at this point. Their payroll will be over $200M next season, lux tax galore, and they wont care because they are betting on the team to print money in the playoffs.... and repeat..
The number of cry babies there are in this thread are unbelievable. I think we should be making moves as well, but there’s reason to still believe this team can substantially improve.
Mitchell is obviously the team’s Batman, and a complete stud. Evan showed what he can be during the Celtics series and, while he still needs to get stronger, he can easily be a 20+ ppg guy. If he can maintain the three-point shooting he exhibited after coming back from injury on higher volume, he has all star written all over him. Allan is what he is. He’s a great dude and a great player. If he can actually be that guy in the playoffs, he’s a huge value add. Even Garland, as much as I dislike him, has been an all star. That player exists inside him. If he can get back to that form this team can be very good.
I don’t know a thing about whether Atkinson will be a good coach, but he’s supposed to be a great developer of young players, and a great offensive mind, and just because he’s those things doesn’t mean Allan and Mobley are going to forget how to play defense. This will still be a serviceable defensive team, at minimum, going forward. So if Atkinson can just do what he was brought in to do - find peak offensive versions of Garland and Mobley - this team can still improve dramatically simply through internal growth.
I still don’t necessarily agree with it, but I understand wanting to give the new coach a chance to do just that before figuring out what pieces to move.
It's just frustrating. This teams ceiling and maybe a window to actually contend rests in the hands of Altman.
Mobley is going into his 4th year, there is a MOUNTAIN of data that tells you he's better at the 5 and the team is better with him at the 5. You can say them same thing about Garland and Spida and Mobley and Allen overlapping. More than enough statistical data that shows too much overlap and that the team gets much better when those guys don't share the floor. I suppose you could bring Allen and Garland off the bench? but then they would have to get creative filling out the other starting spots.
Maybe move Allen, Niang and LeVert, and then let Garland cook with the 2nd unit.
I don't know, again frustrating, same feeling you get when you watch the Lakers or Suns and other teams. Solid pieces, that just don't fit together.
That Celtics staring 5 works well together, same thing for the Nuggets the year before..
I 100% agree that there are issues with the roster. If it were up to me, Garland would have had a different home by last season’s trade deadline. I understand all the data that says certain players don’t mesh well, but at the same time, there’s also a mountain of data that shows this team can be elite defensively as currently constructed. If an offensive coach can add even 5-10 points per game to this team without abandoning that defensive identity with Allan and Mobley, then we all could be dramatically happier as fans, even without the sweeping changes that everyone is calling for.
To me, it’s more upsetting that there haven’t been any auxiliary moves this off-season, let alone some big trade with the core four. If the front office thinks Atkinson can get that 5-10 point change out of the team, then I’m fine giving this core another bite at the apple, even though that isn’t what I would do. At minimum though, it feels like we should have used our mid level by now on a player like Jalen Smith, or made a move for one of the Hawks less expensive pieces like Hunter or Bogdanovic. So I understand the frustration. I just wish people would stop acting like we’re getting ready to trot Jamario Moon and Boobie Gibson out there this year. This is still a playoff team, and that’s worth something.
Yeah, I think it's a two year window. Player option isn't until year 4. We'll be back ( in a worse place probably ) in that 26/27 season, the year before his player option 27/28.
It's short term becuase because it lines up with Mitchell hitting the 10-year service level, which makes him eligible to earn like 35% more or something like that.
Glad that I was wrong and Don actually signed. I know it's only for 3 years, but I get it, because with the 10-year service criteria, he stands to earn so much more in 2027.
So, this looks like a 2 year window at most. Koby needs to do something now.
I’m skeptical that Cleveland will be the team paying Mitchell his 5yr/380m extension but today’s not really about that. There’s work to do but let’s be happy this is a golden era of stars in Cleveland. Garrett/Mitchel/Ramirez/Chubb… Cleveland’s got dudes across all the sports. Great day for Cleveland.
It is a great day for Cleveland. If the Guardians can make a deep playoff run, and Chubb can get back to 80% of what he was, it should be a great next 6 months for the city.
They haven't spent money, compared to the top spenders of the league, since LeBron left. I can't imagine any world where current ownership ponies up $75M a year for 5 years for a 30 year old Donovan Mitchell.
They also have strategically put themselves well below the tax apron.
imo any "spending" they do will be via salary in salary out trades, or marginal short term low dollar deals to stay under tax apron.
Gilbert isn't suddenly going to become the Celtics and say who cares about lux tax.
Totally understand where you're coming from. $75M/year is a ton. However, your point on where they haven't spent money since LeBron left is because they've essentailly been rebuilding with promising players (Garland and Mobley) on rookie contracts. They went out and spent money on Strus and Niang (LOL) last year so now that they have that guy in Mitchell, they'll spend money IMO. I just don't see them letting Mitchell walk just because he's going to cost a ton.
When I say spent money, I just mean spending in a chase of winning the whole thing. These days you can't win an NBA championship without paying luxury tax, and the Cavs don't want to pay luxury tax.
Cavs championship cost them $53M in luxury tax...
There's just no way around that in today's NBA. You are bringing a knife to gun fight if you consistently stay below the tax aprons.
Cavs now 6 straight seasons without a tax bill, and won't be any different this season. Payroll will end up around 15th, middle of the pack, despite having a roster close enough to bet on imo
Agree totally on having to enter the luxury tax to win. But to my point, they've been without a tax bill because they were rebuilding so it didn't make any sense to enter into the luxury tax. I think if the window to win a title presents itself, Gilbert will have no qualms about enter the luxury tax.
Cavs got out of the tax when Lebron left the first time and didn’t get back into until he came back.
You go into the tax once you think you have a roster that’s almost ready to win a title. If you go to early, you’re stuck with a roster not good enough and little ways to improve.
And that's where the disagreement will be among Cavs fans. I thought ( and plenty of people did ) this past year they were a few pieces away from being a legit contender, and they didn't really do anything, and then did zip at the deadline.
Things could change, but every signal so far as been just running back something that didn't work.. I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case..
If your GM isn't savvy enough to get you into lux tax and out of it when needed to take some swings.. then maybe you need a new GM..
Gilbert isn't suddenly going to become the Celtics and say who cares about lux tax.
I don’t think Gilbert spends indiscriminately to maintain the fifth best team in the East. However if there’s a real 2 year window where the Cavs can realistically win a championship he will 100% spend the money and go into the second apron. The goal should be getting to that position, which they are not.
Also 30 isn’t bad anymore. There might be 1 or 2 years on the backend where Mitchell declines but there would be more good years than bad on that deal. If Mitchell wants to stay for that deal that means the Cavs did something right and they’re competing for a championship and thus you spend. Which I think Gilbert will.
They haven't spent money, compared to the top spenders of the league, since LeBron left.
That’s because they haven’t had a reason to. No rebuilding team would ever voluntarily go above the luxury tax, unless it was extremely short term and doing so allowed that team to bring in additional assets.
The new CBA punishes repeaters hard, and the aprons start to restrict player movement, so teams have to be strategic about when they go over the threshold. Once you’re up there in salary and you become a repeater, it becomes nearly impossible to keep your roster together. Gilbert isn’t Dolan. He’s always been more than willing to spend, but teams have to be smart about it. Two years ago, Mobley was coming off a rookie of the year worthy campaign and we traded for Mitchell. It was easy to look into the future and see when both of their extensions would kick in. That’s the mark. That’s when we’re guaranteed to go into the tax, and, IMO, that’s when our window starts.
But that’s also why it was smart not to go over the tax last season. It delayed the clock another year. In fact, the inevitability of going over the tax for the 25-26 season is why you might see the Cavs try to sneak under the tax line again this year. Because once you’re over it, you have three years to stay there before becoming a repeater and likely being forced to strip parts of your roster away. Those three seasons - from 25-26, to 27-28 - coincide with the prime years of nearly every meaningful player on the roster, and that’s likely the timeframe when Gilbert will do whatever he has to in order to “go for it”.
Just because he hasn’t done it yet, doesn’t mean it won’t eventually happen.
This x 1,000,000. Going into the tax just to go into the tax is brain dead stupid in the new CBA (see: Suns, Phoenix). Once you get to that second apron, you're going to get hammered both financially and in roster restrictions. You can essentially hold onto what you have, but you're locked out of almost all meaningful ways to improve. As an example, a second apron team can't pick up buyout free agents whose original salary was above a certain price point.
The Cavs will get there with the Mobley and Mitchell maxes, and there was no reason to start the repeater clocks a year early for at best marginal improvements.
Glad they signed Mitchell, and I commend him for re-upping with the Cavs........but the FO can't stand pat on what the roster is right now. As has been said above, we'll only have him for 2 years, possibly 3. The time to move up in the Eastern Conference is now. A lot of teams are making moves to improve themselves. The Celtics, Sixers(Paul George), and Knicks(Mikal Bridges) all look formidable, and if the Cavs do nothing, they'll have another good season of 50 wins or so, but will once again fall short of the EC title.
I hate speculating about behind the scenes stuff when I have no actual information.
But Mitchell doesn’t sign without at least a semblance of a plan to improve the team, right?
I don’t mind not dipping into FA yet because the early part of FA is mediocre players getting overpaid in a lot of cases. And trading Garland/Allen was always the best way to improve.
I’d have DJJ for 10m a year, Naji Marshall for 9m a year or Jalen Smith for 11m a year. Those are Exocets they could’ve made that’s not overpaying for mediocrity. Niang makes 8.5m a year and they’re all better than he is.
Needle movers? Not in the singular sense that they as players the difference between winning a championship or losing one. They do however provide quality depth and production for a reasonable price and that is needed.
It wouldn’t shock me at all of the plan was to essentially see what Atkinson can do with this group for next season, before hitting the throttle and making big moves next season after seeing where the improvements come from.
I alluded to it in an earlier post, but it makes financial sense to wait to go into the tax until the last possible minute. For the Cavs, that’s the 25-26 season when Mitchell and Mobley’s extensions kick in. So it wouldn’t surprise me if we spend very little this off-season, with the plan of going all in for a 3-4 year stretch starting in 2025.
Spida's comments don't match up though, so if he signs you'd have to think his eternal comments closer to the truth. You can't say publicly don't break up the core 4, and then have you and your agent say, for us to sign this team needs to make a deeper run in the playoffs, every year...
The core 4 and deep run don't coexist. Replacing Thompson or Marcus morris types isn't going to move the needle.. they need a big swing or two to fix the issues they have.
I suspect they needed to actually sign Spida before they did anything, and they shouldn't be in a rush, but you do start to run out of dance partners the longer they wait.. Like both the Spurs and and Pels appeared to have interest in Garland, and those spots are dead now.
I mean, Chris Paul is like, 50 years old… he’s not exactly the spurs PG of the future. The Spurs could very much still want Garland, but without conceding Vassell, no deal will ever get done there.
Golden State just picked up Kyle Anderson for $9M per season... man, that's another dude, at an affordable price that I would have LOVED.. so versatile..
Warriors swapping Klay for Melton and Kyle Anderson, and rumored to be in on Lauri still.... reload...
Is there another example ( In any sport ) of a dude still near the top, making big money, who was just content playing for a franchise who wasn't going anywhere? I know some dudes had big deals that just had to play out ( couldn't trade them, they were older etc).
But LeBron can still play, and could have played for any team this season he wanted to...
Its just such and odd way ( imo ) to wind down your career... especially for a dude who had no problem moving around chasing rings in the past..
I mean.... imagine Luka, Irving and LeBron... or Embiid, Lebron and Maxey... and plenty of other scenarios...
Yeah, but that's like Trout, same team... similar I guess, but something nice about finishing where you started imo... I at least get that...
I've heard some people suggest maybe it's just a Laker legacy thing.. that if you ask lifelong Lakers fans to name their top 5 Lakers, his name never comes up.... maybe more years puts him in that group of people, I tend to think it never will, he'll always be seen as a Cav who played for other teams...
Dirk too (but that's like Kobe). He's probably just comfortable there and now gets to play with Bronny. Maybe under different circumstances he'd be more motivated to try and chase 6 rings but there's nothing left for him to prove at this point. If he went to a contending team people would say those rings don't count.
It's actually crazy that if he came back to Cleveland, we would probably be a top 2-3 favorite to win it all. Guarding Donovan and LeBron would be an absolute nightmare for anyone. That's a lot of explosive athleticism. Even at his age, LeBron is still a force. But, I totally understand that he would want to play with his son, and get his career off to a good start. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. LeBron has accepted that his championship winning days are over. He has nothing left to prove.
Warriors said to be working on trades for both Lauri and Buddy Hield.... what a total reload if they can pull all that off with Melton and Anderson...
So far nothing for the Cavs. Windy reported there's ZERO trade market for Garland right now.. no interest.. sounds like Okoro is asking for $20M, and again, zero interest...
Hearing a lot of people say the Spida deal is basically creates a one year window. The deal took a little longer because Cavs were pushing hard for 4 years, and in the end didn't get that. His trade value goes down significantly after two years, hence the one year window basically.. as UB mentioned above somewhere, we'll just be back in the same place next year ( most likely) but the new deal gives the Cavs much greater trade potential because he'd have 2 years left on his deal..
I'm surprised Hield isn't trying to go back to Philly. He's the perfect option at the 2 for them.
I do wonder if that zero interest is League driven or Cavs driven. There was some talk a few weeks ago about Garland trades but that was shut down by Altman. If teams know a player isn't available then they'll stop calling. Same with Allen.
The only people saying that are the people who can’t imagine Mitchell is actually happy in Cleveland. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have signed an extension, he would have used his leverage (who he’d be willing to sign an extension with) to dictate who he got traded to, and he would have signed there.
With two years left on his deal, teams he might not want to go to could trade for him in the hopes that he changes his mind - like he did in Cleveland. The idea that he would sign with the Cavs and give up that leverage only to ask for a trade a year later is ridiculous. He signed. He’s going to be here for two more years, minimum. And he’s comfortable with what the team is currently doing, because I’m sure he wouldn’t have signed without knowing exactly what the front office’s plan is.
So the national media can GTFO with their shitty takes.
Sorry if I didn't spell out what I was saying so it made sense :) I was listening to different radio programs and some smart basketball people weren't talking about the Cavs being happy with Spida or vice versa. It was about the Cavs pushing for that 4th year, because if the Cavs want to move him ( for any reason) the real payday is to do it with 2 years left on his deal.
That the Cavs wanted a 2 year window with a 4 year deal, but had to settle for a 1 year window with the 3 year deal...
It wasn't about Spida asking for a trade.. it was the trade stuff will just naturally come up again this time next year, because his trade value will be significantly more than waiting another year, or zero if you wait 3..
Isaac is asking for $20M per year. Yeah....No. That's kooky talk. Teams would laugh at him and his agent. Don't be surprised if Isaac takes the Qualifying Offer and plays out this year. Yes, he is a plus defender, but nobody respects him on offense.
It makes sense that Darius has no trade market, because nobody in their right mind would take on his crazy contract after how he's looked in the playoffs the last 2 years. He's looked awful. People have seen his weaknesses on defense and ball-handling habits that cause turnovers. I'm not sure that Darius is built for playoff basketball, physically or mentally. He isn't going anywhere.
If we are serious about keeping Donovan beyond the next 2 years, this team has to make changes or trades. All I know is this: If Strus is our starting small forward again, I'm not gonna be too happy. He's a B- minus player at best. If I see Georges Niang play another full season here, I'm gonna be doubly pissed. I really wish that Evan would finally morph into Kevin Garnett 2.0, and I hope I'm wrong about this, but I'm beginning to believe that he just is what he is. We'll see.
If Isaac was able to average 12-14 points per game and be a plus defender like Dillon Brooks is, that would be a different story. Remember, Isaac is a former top 5 draft pick. That comes with expectations. It comes with the territory. If he wants $20 million per year, I would balk at that. I would however give him a 4 year, $50 million deal, with the 4th year being a team option. I think for the production he gives, that's an acceptable offer. If he declines that? Bye. I don't consider him to be an untouchable.
Dillion Brooks was one of the worst volume shooters before he got paid that. Plus he's a clown.
15-16m a year is all the Cavs can really afford. If he takes that deal great, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't or can't get 20m a year somewhere else.
Oh, there's no question about that. Him and Draymond are the biggest douche-canoes in the league, even though Draymond has no equal. Can't stand either of them.
If Isaac was able to average 12-14 points per game, I would be overjoyed. Like, thrilled. That would be equal to or better than any trade we could make.
He's never been asked to do anything outside of hit an occasional shot. You can't say he can't do something when he's never been given the opportunity.
His shooting splits in the last 2 playoffs don't inspire confidence that he would be worth a contract anywhere near $20 million per year. We need actual 3 level scoring threats on offense to compete with the vastly improved Eastern Conference, and respectfully, Isaac is not that.
Sometimes, the best move you make is not to make a move at all. I would NOT overpay to keep Isaac Okoro. I'm sure he's a great kid, and it isn't personal. He just never lived up to his top 5 draft status.
I never understood drafting a 6'5" wing player that can't shoot and has zero offensive skills....good defender but that's it....should never have drafted a guy like him before the 2nd round.
This is a bad take. Okoro was the best defender in college basketball as a freshman. He has some elite athletic traits. His college profile was very similar to Kawhi Leonard (who shot sub 30% from 3 as a sophomore). He was a guy who, if you could teach him to shoot, he could be a star. Imagine if he could just get to a point where he could simply become dependable from 3. He would quite literally be exactly what this team needs.
If he hasn't learned how to shoot yet, he isn't going to...I can't think of one player that all of a sudden in their 6th year in the league went from being a terrible shooter to a good one.
Almost all of his 3pt attempts are from the corner baseline and are unguarded. Defenses give the Cavs that shot since they know they are better off rotating his defender to help against DM, DG and clogging the paint down low against EM and JA.
Also, he shot in the mid-20’s from 3 in the playoffs as defensive intensity is much higher than in the regular season.
Okoro is still an awful outside shooter and hurts our offense tremendously.
Hitting corner 3s is essential because it provides the most spacing for the offense. You're going to get open threes when you have two guards that can penetrate and distribute like Cavs do. That's somehow a bad thing that he gets open three's? Teams are better off helping off Okoro because it'll turn into a layup line if they don't.
He also shot 20 whatever in the playoffs because his main assignment in both series was guarding all NBA forwards and both teams first and second options. That's going to take away your legs and ability to shoot.
Not many 23 year olds are finished products, physically/mentally/skillwise. He's gotten better every year. My guess is he will continue to get better because that's what his track record says.
Just shocks me when there's a young player that has shown growth over 4 seasons and fans shit on the guy.
Sorry but the facts absolutely support my view that he’s a very poor offensive player
Check any of the major ranking services of small forwards in the league and he’s in the 40-50 range. Thats in a league with 30 teams. It means he’s not a starting quality player at the position. He’s a defensive specialist and you can try to twist his offensive stats like a pretzel and it wont change that.
He’s a poor offensive player who doesn’t rebound either. Defensive specialist only. It’s not “shitting on him” it’s a realistic assessment.
The offense doesn't get worse with him on the floor. The Cavs best offensive lineups from last year routinely had him on the floor.
I don't need to "pretzel" anything. There's 2+ years worth of forum discussions on here where I've never said he was a starting SF. I've only maintained he doesn't suck. People hate because he's more Tony Allen than Taysean Prince.
There is reportedly a sign and trade offer on the table with the Nets: Okoro for Cam Johnson. The hesitation is it’s going to cost most or all of the Cavs second round picks (5) in the next three years.
Yes, almost $70M guaranteed... I will never understand how these teams want to dump salary. and somehow the Cavs have to pay for that. and everyone else gives basically nothing away..
I don’t think it’s a salary dump. I think they’re trying to get players on their timeline and Okoro being 23 With upside probably appeals more than Johnson being 28 and is what he is.
Who cares about second round picks? They’re worthless and Johnson is lightheaded better than Okoro. The hesitation is that would start the Cavs clock with the luxury tax. But it would be 100% worth it.
They’ll have their first round picks in 26 and 28. And I repeat, second round picks are worthless. That trade - if it’s a real thing - is a chance to substantially improve the team. You’re not getting anything close to a cam Johnson in the second round of the nba draft. Nor are you getting anything near cam Johnson by trading Okoro along. What would you rather they use those picks for???
Not as worthless for luxury tax teams as they can sign them to 4 year near rookie minimum contracts. You have to have a good scouting department but second round picks are starting to be seen as ways to get cheap role players.
Rumors popping up about Miles Bridges as well. I know he’s a shitty human being, but he’s theoretically a perfect basketball fit for what the Cavs need.
That’s fine, but a trade for him seems logistically more plausible than one for Johnson. It would be very similar to what GS and Dallas just pulled off that allowed GS to add Buddy Hield. We send Okoro somewhere for a second rounder or two, then those picks go to Charlotte for Bridges. We get a legitimate starting SF for nothing more than a guy that half the fan base wanted us to let walk anyway, and we get that guy for well below market value for a someone of his talent because of his obvious character flaws.
For the record, I’d much rather have Johnson, and I hate having someone like that on the team, but it’s easier to stomach when the rest of the team are essentially choir boys. If you really want to improve the team and jump into contender status, that’s the kind of move that helps get you there.
The FO mortgaged the team's future for DM but have done a poor job of improving the cast around him and it appears they are going to live and die with DM as the "man" for the near term. However, the Celtics, Knicks, Sixers and maybe the Magic look better going into the 24-25 season. I do not see how they can improve now to keep pace other than a better offensive scheme with Mobley improving leaps and bounds going into the season.
Hopefully the new HC can get more out of them than Bickerstaff did.
I know it's a moot point, but I wonder where the team would be if they would have kept LM and built around that core and used their draft capitol more efficiently?
Bucks got better as well imo. Delon Wright allows them to hide Dame on defense. That's massive. They need to stay healthy, but if they can, they'll be right there..
Wildcard is Jimmy Butler, Miami would still be relevant with him, but without him, they take a major hit... but if they lose him, does he stay in the East?
I think the Cavs still have some chess pieces to move around ( Niang, LeVert). You need to stay healthy and work the regular season games off thing, but like the Celtics gave Horford some time off in playoff games, and then their stars played basically the whole game in the playoffs.. you can get by with just dudes in the regular season, just get in.. and then do the short bench thing. Denver did the same thing the year before..
They didn’t mortgage anything in the Mitchell trade. Mitchell IS the future here. Three firsts and a handful of role players is extremely reasonable for a top 15ish player who hasn’t even hit his prime yet. I wish people would stop complaining about us trading Markkanen. Exactly one year earlier the Bulls gave him to us for nothing! And the year he spent here was solid-not-spectacular. No one could have predicted he’d become a two-time all-star with the Jazz, and I maintain he wouldn’t be that if he were still on the Cavs. He gets opportunities in Utah he never would have got with us and he benefits from being able to stack stats on a shitty team.
It seems like the Cavs are playing for the 2025-27 seasons, and waiting a bit for the changing of the guard. By that time all those teams you listed, other than Orlando could have serious issues. Milwaukee is on their second year as a repeater and are aging and falling apart. The Knicks just lost their best post presence and are going to jump straight into the second apron. The Celtics lose their entire bench after this year, which will Coincide with them becoming a repeater. They then loss Porzingas the year after that. The Sixers are literally a three man team and they have no cap left to build a bench. Meanwhile, the Cavs young core can continue to grow and improve. I wish they would have made a move this year as well, but I at least understand the reasoning behind what they’re doing.
Undercoverbuck: Thanks for the updates on the Cavs. I'm still hoping the FO upgrades the roster for a better 2024-25 season. 50-55 wins would be nice, but we've been there before.
I hate talking about the Knicks but this affects all the teams in the East (and we finally know the price of friendship) but Brunson signs a 156m/4yr extension leaving 116m on the table. Unprecedented in the modern NBA. The Knicks are here to stay.
Are the Cavs planning to do anything that improves the team this offseason? Have they given up now that both Boston and NY and Phila seem to be head and shoulders above everyone else in the East? If that is the thought (I can see it), why are we not trading players for assets to rebuild for the next window?
While I understand the frustration of the team not making any moves, holy shit, Garland and Mobley are still two/three years away from hitting their prime, and Allan and Mitchell should just now be entering it! What do you mean rebuild for the “next window”? We haven’t even hit this window yet!
Also, why in God’s name would we start tearing things down right when we lose control of our first round picks for the next five years? How does that make any sense?
I’ve said it before, but it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the off-season plan was basically - see what a coach with an offensive pulse can do with our young core while staying under the tax for one more season. I hate it because, as a fan, I want the team constantly going for it, but there is logic in delaying our repeater clock for another season while money starts to tighten for all the teams you just mentioned. It’s already tightening on Milwaukee and Miami, and it’ll start tightening on Boston by next offseason. The Cavs can see how the team grows this year with Atkinson before trying to make a bigger move next year, right when they’re set to go over the tax and start their three-year clock.
I’m sure if the right guy became available for the right price right now, the team would be willing to start their clock a year early for it, but I’m not sure what that move would be at this point. Brandon Ingram isn’t that guy. Cameron Johnson probably isn’t either (and that’s if we even had the draft capital required to pull that trade off). Deandre Hunter? Bogdanovic? Harrison Barnes? They’d all make the team better, but are they worth starting our clock early for? You get a giant shrug emoji from me on that question.
So the plan all along was to trade for a win now player and waste 3 years of his window.
Like it or not, when they traded for Mitchell. they sped the clock up...but haven't done a damn thing to open the window...if I'm Mitchell I'm hugely frustrated...if they run the same team back this year nothing will change...they will win about 48 games...probably drop to a 5 or 6 seed and have a first round exit once again...if that happens, and I'm Mitchell, I'm asking to be traded.
There is no "growth" that will make this team better....you have too much reduncies...2 undersized guards that are both ball dominant....and 2 bigs that can't shoot outside...that's not going to change. Allen or Mobley aren't going to all of sudden hit 3s at high volumes and Mitchell or Garland aren't going to grow 4 inches to become average sized.
Good lord, are you a Debbie Downer… “Beware! The Cavs future is dark and full of terrors!”
They traded for Mitchell in an attempt to become a legitimate playoff team in the present. Two straight 4-seeds says the trade accomplished that. But becoming a contender always depended on Garland and Mobley’s growth. That much hasn’t changed, and it’s fair to want to see if an offensive coach can actually coax that potential out of them, before blowing shit up, as so many impatient fans want them to do.
I’m on the record as being a serious Garland doubter, and wishing for him to get traded. But even I know trading him now would be a sell-low proposition. Dude was an all star three years ago for a reason. That player still exists in there. If an offensive coach can revive that version of Garland, how much better does this team become? And if he can’t, they can always trade him next year.
Mobley was banged up this year as well, but after he returned, he shot something like 39% from 3 for the rest of the season. He doesn’t even need to keep that up in order to help the Cavs grow. All he has to do is be able to keep defenses honest. If he can even shoot 36% on increased volume, suddenly his pairing with Allan isn’t bad at all, and we still get to reap the benefits of having two elite run protectors on the floor. If an offensive coach can grow Mobley into that player, how much better does this team become? And if he can’t, we can always trade Allan next year.
Who knows what will happen next year. Could both those things happen? Unlikely, but maybe? But even one of those things happening helps the Cavs decide what direction to go.
In my post that you replied to, I posed the question, who out there - that the Cavs could realistically get with their limited assets - is worth going over the luxury tax and starting our 3-year-clock a year early for? In your post, you did a lot of whining, but posted no solutions. It was all “this team sucks,” and, “this team has no future,” and “Mitchell should request a trade!” But what move would you have made this off-season that would have launched the Cavs into true contender status this year? Because that seems to be your standard. No, “well, they could really grow into something in two years when some other teams start to decline!” It’s all championship in 24-25 or bust!
Tyson's having a pretty solid summer league debut. 15pts/8reb against the Magic. 14pts/7reb/4ast against the Bucks. Stinker against GSW but had a low usage game and still added 4 reb/4ast/2stl. Could do a lot worse at no.20 than a jack of all trades, master of none wing role player.
Status quo (meaning Okoro comes back and no major roster moves) I think he can maybe work into the back end of the rotation by the end of the season. Players that will play over him right now are Levert, Strus, Okoro, and Wade plus you factor in the 2 small guard lineups and Tyson isn't getting minutes at the 4.
He won't (nor shouldn't) be rushed but this is more about 2025-26 than 2024-25. He'll see some action but without a significant injury or two it'd be hard for him to get regular minutes unless he absolutely pops.
Undercoverbuck: Thanks for your input, and I watched him last night too. He looked good, but as you said right now it looks like that might be a longshot for next year's rotation. One thing I would like to see is whether Emoni Bates is ready to contribute some significant minutes. I just don't want his career to be mostly Summer League basketball.
I think Tyson gave us a peak at what his ceiling could look like, and that's a high usage (when on the court) bench player that fills the stat sheet up off the bench. He'll never see that role in the starting lineup, not with Garland and Mitchell on the team at least, but having someone who who's 6'7 initiating offense or possibly being a secondary playmaker is a great asset to have on the team.
I'll still stick with Bates is a year away. He's a flamethrower but I get zero sense that he understands how to play basketball. I think he understands how to get a bucket, just needs to continue to fill out and learn professional basketball. I think Atkinson can help with that.
I don't think they had an option. He's now a top 10 paid player ( which is crazy ). Barring an injury though hard to imagine a version where it ends up being a terrible deal. Feels like worst case, and overpay for an above average player... with a lot of room for "best case"
What they do have an option of though. Getting rid of Allen. If you are going to pay Mobley that kind of money and build around him, and EVERY metric/data point on the planet tells you he's better and the team is better with him at center, then just build around that.
Cade Cunningham, Franz Wagner, and Scottie Barnes have all signed max extensions. Would you trade Mobley straight up for any of them? I wouldn’t. Cunningham is a stat-packer on the league’s worst team. And Wagner is talented, but doesn’t shoot particularly well, and when officials aren’t gifting him free throws, he can struggle to impact the game in a positive way. Barnes is the only one I’d even think twice about, simply because he’d be a better fit on the current team, but Mobley still has a higher ceiling.
Let’s assume that last season is Mobley’s floor as a player. That means at worst, you have a top 5ish defensive player who averages 16/9/3 as the fourth(!) highest usage player on the team.
What do his splits look like if he’s the third highest usage player? What if we commit to him being the second? What would his stats look like if he were on the jazz instead of Markkanen? I think you’d be looking at Mobley being a two-time all-star instead, and he’d probably be around 23/11/5 right now as a 23 year old defensive stud. That’s not even considering if his 37% 3pt shooting from last year can be sustained on higher volume.
I’d love to see Mobley and Garland’s usages flip. I hope Atkinson devotes all his attention to developing Mobley, and makes he and Mitchell the big two. Garland can stand in the corner and shoot threes and keep his lazy turnovers out of the game.
Cost of doing business these days. I don't think there was going to be another option with Evan. Hopefully he elevates his game under the new coaching staff.
Paying Mobley that kind of money is absolutely bonkers. He's not a dominant player. He's not even what you would call a great player. He has a minimal offensive skill-set and doesn't have the physical tools or the alpha competitive spirit to be much more than he is now. He's very frustrating to watch.
But the truth is that the Cavs didn't have a choice. They don't have the money to pay a legit free agent, only current players under contract. They're gambling on him developing into a superstar that we know he'll never become. I'm concerned the Cavs will overpay their current roster just to keep the fans buying season tickets and maintain a modicum of competitiveness. I guess it's better than being a dogshit lottery team like Detroit and Charlotte.
Everything you post is angry and definitive. At 23 years old, you’ve already seen Mobley’s ceiling and your opinion can’t possibly be wrong. I don’t understand people who speak in absolutes like you do.
Sorry for being an angry dick on this thread, guys.
It was another game where they played hard and made it interesting, and I can live with that. Evan was fabulous tonight, and I really hope that we see more of that next year.
How did you go from this to…
He's not even what you would call a great player. He has a minimal offensive skill-set and doesn't have the physical tools or the alpha competitive spirit to be much more than he is now.
Yes, he played well in an elimination game. But that doesn't mean that he now deserves to be paid like a bonafide superstar. Unfortunately he's not, and I don't think he ever will be. I'm NOT saying he can't or won't get better. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely that he'll be an All-Star caliber player or a franchise cornerstone. We are now paying him as if he is. We are already paying Garland as if he's a top 5 point guard. Cavs don't have the luxury of being on the hook for several max contracts that prevent them from becoming a contender, which is what we all want.
Let me say that I DON'T dislike Evan at all. Let me also say that I'm glad we have him, and that he'll be here for a while. He's a really good kid, who comes from a great family (I met them and set next to them in LA when we played the Lakers. His parents were very cool). Evan is a lengthy, plus defender, and that's great. I had expectations of him becoming a fringe All-Star kind of player. I knew that he was raw physically and needed to fill out. I understood that, but it hasn't happened. To now pay him north of $40 million annually when he doesn't average anywhere near 20 points per game, is still VERY underweight for his position, and hasn't developed his game is a legitimate concern. If this team has any aspirations of being anything more than a 1st-2nd round stepping stone for an elite team, Evan needs to at least become a poor man's Kevin Garnett. Evan still has a boat load of development ahead of him, and I hope he plays up to that contract.
It’s interesting that you bring up Kevin Garnett, as through the first three years of his career he slashed 15.3/8.5/3, compared to Mobley’s 15.7/9.5/3… Garnett was also 6th in his ROY voting (compared to Mobley’s 2nd) and not higher than 11th in DPOY (compared to Mobley’s 3rd).
Garnett also never showed any ability to extend his game beyond the three point line, only shooting more than one 3-pointer per game once in his career, and only shooting better than .330 from three once on his 22 seasons. He did this while being a clear top-two scoring option for his team (with Tom Gugliotta), and thus being allowed to fully grow and develop his offensive game.
Garnett then exploded by year five when he was the defensive POY and second in the MVP voting.
I say all this, not to call Evan Mobley the next Kevin Garnett (I don’t ever see him becoming an MVP candidate), but to highlight that their career averages though three seasons are actually remarkably similar. It’s also to show that Evan is already a better defender and shooter than Garnett was at the same point in their careers.
Now, Garnett played in an era when scoring was not what it is today, and his numbers are hindered by a very average rookie year. But even his best year (year 3) he slashed 18.5/9.5/4, which is not that different from where Evan is at, and he did that while being depended on for his scoring far more than Evan ever has been. If the Cavs really commit to Mobley being the team’s number 2 option, would it really be shocking to see his scoring/assist numbers go up to around 19/10/4 during this upcoming campaign and seriously contend for an all star spot? Because that doesn’t seem like a stretch at all to me.
Hey man, if Evan can be 75% of the player Garnett was, I would be thrilled, and I would happily eat crow with ghost pepper sauce.
Don't let your mind think that I'm saying "Evan Mobley sucks." That is NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying he isn't a superstar and shouldn't be paid like one.
How can you say "shouldn't be paid like one" though? You've already admitted the contract is the contract and they had no choice. So what "should" have happened here in your mind?
No. I just don't think he's done enough to get that kind of contract. I like Evan, and what he brings. But I don't see a pathway for him to being a franchise player, and he is paid like one. This franchise will go as he goes. We need him to make a quantum leap in his development. That's not an unreasonable statement.
People will probably bitch about this because the word “max” is in the headlines. But good roll players are going for 20-25 million this offseason. In two years, with the cap going up 10% a year, I can’t imagine a boarder line all star center isn’t worth at least $30 million a year. By the second year of that extension, it will look like a bargain for a player of his caliber.
Deep down, I’m also hoping this extension means Garland is the most likely “core” player to get traded. I know people will complain about Mobley’s fit with Allan, but if he can maintain his 37% shooting from 3 on higher volume, he can absolutely fit as the 4. I like Allan’s fit next to Mobley exponentially more than Garland’s fit next to Mitchell.
The Cavaliers are certainly making a financial commitment to keep the "Core 4" together. At the same time they must feel this is the best way to go to build a championship team. Cleveland will be good for sure in 2024-25, but there's plenty of competition in the East for that top spot, namely the Celtics, Knicks, Sixers, and Pacers. Can our Cavs take the next step up? Boston is the champion, while the Knicks and Sixers made impactful moves that could make the Celtics sweat a little extra for that East title, while Indiana went all the way to the East Final, and head to head, we've had trouble with the Pacers.
Posting this here because apparently there wasn't much of an appetite for it on 11W, but how special was that Olympics team? Watching LeBron and Steph dominate together in those last two games got me emotional as a pure hoops fan. Almost a Disney-like ending. Bron, Steph, and KD each had their moments at the end of the Serbia game and finally being able to cheer for Curry as he hit a 30-foot fadeaway dagger was an unreal feeling. This was my generation of basketball and I definitely savored every moment of them playing one last time together.
Also, shoutout to Devin Booker for saying a year ago he would commit to playing his role and following up with it. Best +/-, incredible defending, important buckets, I hope he has a great upcoming season for Phoenix.
It was awesome. Only other time I feel like I rooted for Curry was 2013-14 (the season before they made the finals) and when they beat Boston. It's honestly too bad the GSW couldn't pull off the Lebron trade last trade deadline. That was spectacular to watch and now I feel cheated.
I got choked up when I watched it...it was unreal actually being able to root for Steph...especially since he really has always been a likeable guy...he just won too much over the Cavs for my liking lol.
Lebron/Steph/KD all maybe past their primes but they still are top 10 players imo.
When Magic and Larry were past their primes, I wouldn't say they were close to top 10 still...even when Michael was past his prime in Washington, he was not a Top 10 player. Neither was Shaq or Kobe.
I will say my favorite moment of the run they had though was when KD through that alley oop to Anthony Edwards...imagine Edwards getting an oop thrown to him by his childhood idol....that was so awesome.
Luke Travers signed on a two way today. Does everything but shoot. Not sure if that occupies the last roster spot or not but won’t contribute until he gets NBA 3pt range and consistency. Think poor man’s Josh Giddey if you’ve missed the past couple of summer leagues.
Im sure it helps the Knicks a little bit but I don’t think it’s a game changer. I just can’t believe they gave up Donte for KAT. KAT seems like the least likely Thibs player and Donte is part of the Nova boys. I thought since this summer they should have dumped Randle to resign Hartenstein.
The Twolves are loading up and I love what they’re doing. They can legit go 9 deep and that’s not including Dillingham. Conley, Ant, McDaniels, Randle and Reid is a hell of a closing lineup with the versatility to go smaller by adding Donte or bigger by taking off Randle and playing Gobert.
Love this trade for the Wolves, eh we’ll see for the Knicks.
I agree with you. I don't see Minnesota missing KAT at all with them having Reid and Donte Divincenzo is another knockdown shooter. I can see this trade catapulting Minnesota into a top 3 team while the Knicks will be slightly worse. Only thing is Randle could be a shot chucker at times and it won't fly with an Edwards led team.
Undercoverbuck: Do you see any significant changes in the Cavs' rotation this season? Barring any long term injuries, I'm wondering if the bench will be a little more productive? Will Jaylon Tyson be part of the rotation?
With Kenny Atkinson now the coach, he may look at the roster in a different way.
I don’t see anything until well into the season, if they even try to make a move. Cavs have convinced themselves it was a JBB problem (not necessarily wrong in part) and not a roster problem. Now if the asking price comes down on someone like DFS or Cam Johnson they’ll probably see what they can do. Just hard to project they’re level of urgency in making a move when we don’t know how everyone will look. I would have low expectations for Tyson, especially in his first year or two. I think he can eventually crack the rotation maybe as early as next season but he’s not really an NBA ready player. I think the front office sees him as an eventual LeVert replacement so we’ll see how the development goes. One of Atkinson’s calling cards is development so we might be pleasantly surprised with his development.
Watched the Cavs' preseason game vs. the Bulls, and I liked the uptempo pace that they were playing. Also, I couldn't help but notice how much weight Georges Niang has lost. He's not skinny, but a lot more lean. Should help him get on the court more.
I'm hoping that Coach Atkinson will keep the pedal to the metal because I believe this suits the "Core 4" better. I felt the pace of last year's Cavs was not conducive to maximizing their skills. Maybe Darius Garland won't turn the ball over as much with a faster pace of play, giving him more open court opportunities to find his teammates.
Things I've liked about this preseason that I've heard so far
There's a huge effort to increasing Mobley's usage and the first preseason game showed that
Not changing the teams identity from a defense first team
Concerted effort to make Garland/Mitchell off ball movement/catch and shoot guys instead of "your turn/my turn" when sharing the floor
Bates gained like 35 pounds of muscle, still skinny but that's nice to see
Tyson is getting rave reviews. I'd still have tempered expectations for him as a rookie but it appears he knows his role and doing very well. Tyson says he models his game after Josh Hart and Caleb Martin
Movement on offense and running the offense through any of the Core 4 will give the Cavs plenty of different looks and variety
I think we're looking at another top 4 finish. Boston, NYK, and then a toss up between Orlando and us for the 3rd/4th spots.
I think Philly will go hard after the top record in the east. But they are so injury prone. Not sure I like the Knicks defense and their bench is weak.
Could see the Cavs anywhere from 3-6. It is going to be hard not to make the playoffs in the East. Bottom is really bad.
Not sure what to make of the Heat and Bucks...plus the Pacers. Boston to me is the only real known this season in the East.
Can Garland and Mitchell co exist? Like you said the you and then me offense bogs the Cavs down. Boston faced this with Tatum and Brown so many years and finally figured it out.
Cavs breaking ground on a new state of the art practice facility today, expected to open in 2027.
The future @ClevelandClinic Global Peak Performance Center will serve as a game changer, not only to our athletes, but to the public, providing to those who reside here and to those who will travel here to receive best-in-class medical care. pic.twitter.com/UesB79yzV7
— Cleveland Cavaliers (@cavs) October 14, 2024
Heard last night on the Cavs' preseason game vs. Detroit that Coach Atkinson wants Darius Garland to shoot more 3's. Probably a good idea because it seems like Darius hasn't shot the trifecta as well recently, perhaps because of low volume. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it seems like 2 years ago Garland shot the 3 ball better than he did last season. Darius averaged 6 threes per game in 2023-24, and I believe they want him to put up 10 at least.
It's not necessarily the number of three's really it's how he shoots them. He probably wants a small uptick in three's from Garland regardless but the key is more variety. He wants to get him more off catch and shoot and coming off screens giving the offense more motion. He doesn't want the majority being step back or dribble around until he has to shoot like he has a tendency to. Atkinson is stressing multiplicity and that includes Mitchell as well.
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Can't believe part 1 only got us halfway through the draft lol.
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I would feel a lot more comfortable trading Allen if they were able to trade into the 2nd round and draft Filipowski to be the backup center for Mobley.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
I saw some twitter traffic late last night/early this morning connecting Filipowski and the Cavs trading back into the first round.
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Welp, after reading the crazy Filipowski story re: his family and now fiancée, I think the Cavs dodged a bullet lol
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Yea no kidding. Utah sounds like the perfect place for him... I'll just leave it at that.
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Truly
This is definitely where I parked my car.
I think Hunter could be had with the Hawks addition of Risacher and Jalen Johnson's emergence. They did just ship AJ Griffen to the Rockets (for pick no.44) so maybe Hunter isn't looking to be moved. The Hawks will need all three presumably but they've kind of soured on Hunter after his big extension.
Do not want Bridges. Headache is not worth it and he wants to get paid. Let him waste away in obscurity somewhere.
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As soon as they drafted Risacher, my mind went to Hunter. They also can likely resign Sediq Bey at a reasonable rate, given his injury. Meanwhile, they’re paying Hunter $20+ mil a year and despite his talent, I could see them wanting to get out of that contract. Hunter is a good player and a quality 3 and D player who has been languishing in a bad situation. I think a change of scenery would do him a world of good. Something like LeVert’s expiring deal and some menial draft compensation might be enough to get it done, though LeVert’s expiring deal would also likely be the key to any pursuit of Cam Johnson as well.
Yea I just have no feel for what the Cavs will do. Trading for Cam Johnson seems even too big a move at the moment.
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I think the Spurs plan on using Castle at the point.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Perhaps, and that’s their option. But that dude is a SG all the way.
I'd like to keep both Mobley and Allen (plus the Serena Winters effect)
Always try to look for the positive ........... in the midst of a crisis !!
Cheerish every single day
Love Tyler Kolek in NYK. That screams Thibs guy and is Miles McBride insurance in a few years.
I don’t really care what anyone else thinks, Lebron and Bronny on the Lakers is cool as fuck. It’ll be shades of the Griffey’s playing together and there will be a game where they’re throwing alley oops to each other.
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Ehhh trade Mobley, not worth the 200+ million that he’s going to want
Mobley is on rookie scale for an extension. Not sure what the most he can get is, but I don’t believe it’s the same kind of deal that Mitchell can get - $200+ mil.
My guess is Mobley will get just north of what Devin Vassell got last year. His was 5 years $140 mil, I’m guessing Mobley will slot in around 5 years $160-$170 mil.
Barnes just signed a 5yr 225m (up to 270m). I think a rookie max is 25% but if they get the designated rookie max based on certain criteria then they can make 30% of the cap. Which Barnes did. Then i believe that makes him eligible for the escalators to get to 270m if he’s all pro, mvp, etc.
Mobley for 150-180m over 5ys is what’s being rumored but he can say no if he thinks he’s worth 200m. I don’t think any rookie has turned down the rookie extension but the Cavs won’t low ball him.
Mitchell is 209m/4yr (52.5m per), Mobley hypothetically at 180m/5yr is 36m per. Barnes base was 45m per fwiw.
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Immanuel Quickley just signed a 5yr/175m contract so I would assume Mobley gets more than that.
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I would agree if he wasn’t on a rookie deal, not gonna get much in return for that. Don’t really have a choice but to try and develop whatever you can out of him.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Good news is we should have a coach for that now!
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DJ Burns on the summer league team!
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The Round Mound of Rebound part 2
As someone who tries to watch as much summer league as possible I am stoked. So fun to watch.
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I think if Mitchell is signing an extension DG is out of the door and I am OK with that. We saw how the team of clicking when he was out and we saw the results when he came back. Slide Mitchell to the point and maybe get a starting caliber SG.
Truth be told, Mitchell and Garland cannot co-exist. It's not personalities but clash in styles. When, not if, Mitchell signs his extension, I would be shocked if Garland is not traded soon after. One to get him to a team that can net some return and to start planning to pay Mobley. Plus that is where you shoot for that SG compliment to Mitchell.
I probably watched ~15 Cavs games this past season so not a huge sample size but it seemed like Garland would just disappear a ton when Mitchell was also on the floor. He just would just go hang out around the wing and wouldn’t move around to get open.
I wish we would have seen them together on the Cavs, but I am excited to see Bron and Bronny together for no other reason than it is cool and fun and wholesome, on the negative side it makes me feel old as shit.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
There were some cool old photos going around last night from Lebron's first couple years in Cleveland with Bronny.
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The Cavaliers could always benefit by adding more perimeter shooting. I watch enough NBA games to know how important the 3ball is in today's Association. The Celtics used the 3ball as a weapon to go on and win the title. They were 1st in the league with 1,351 made 3's, and 2nd in pct. at 38.8. Dallas was 3rd in made 3's, with 1197. Those two played for the title.
OKC was 1st in 3ball pct. at 38.9, while Minnesota was 3rd at 38.7. The T-Wolves made the Western Conference final.
Conversely, there's no doubt that the lack of 3ball ability by Orlando hurt them vs. the Cavs.
Good recap by Windy on touches on about everything we've been discussing since Game 5 in Boston.
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Dejonte Murray to the Pelicans for LNJ, Dyson Daniels and 2025 FRP 2027 FRP
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Takes NO off the board for Garland, but that seems like a sell-low on Murray with the firsts likely to be from LA next year and Mil in 27. Makes me feel like the price for Hunter wouldn’t be crazy.
Would love to find a way to get this guy back. Not sure what Utah is looking for though.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276368/Jazz-Will-Listen-To-Offers-...
They always were asking for a lot and we saw what Bridges was traded for. Now Utah has said they wanted to resign him but if he says no they’ll lose some negotiation power.
OKC should trade for him. They have young players to send back and all those picks. SGA/Caruso/Jdub/Mark/Chet would be a nasty lineup.
That being said about OKC he’s at his best in a high usage position on offense. He probably wouldn’t get that in OKC, but it’d be fun to watch.
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Did not see this one coming.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40466441/pistons-hire-jb-bickerstaff...
It’s a great hire for them and exactly what they need. Detroit is dysfunctional and JB specializes in rebuilds. He’s the perfect coach for where they’re at right now.
Yep, he’s a good hire for what needs to be done there for sure. I had thought that they were all over Borrego though.
It’s possible Borrego turned them down. That franchise is a dumpster fire.
JBB is also a better coach.
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Anyone who thought JBB was a nepo hire because his dad works in the front office is sorely mistaken. He’s extremely well respected within the league (well, so was Monty Williams and we just saw how that worked out for Detroit…).
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The Jazz were apparently trying to trade for Mikal Bridges and then use their remaining cap space to sign and trade for Paul George.
PG, Bridges and Markkanen big three would’ve been interesting.
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This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone but Chicago is trying to get off from Zach Lavine, even going so far as to attach an unprotected first. Zero teams are biting and that includes the usual suspects who make moves like this. Just for the hilarity of watching these two players on the same court Id love for the Wizards to trade for him and make a starting backcourt of Lavine and Poole.
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Apparently the Bills tried to trade him to the GSW for Wiggins and CP3… they laughed, said no and waived CP3 after the phone call. Imagine getting shut down by a team that doesn’t want either player. Now THAT’S an albatross of a contract.
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KCP to the Magic. The Magic are getting better but still no guards…
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KCP to the Magic. The Magic are getting better but still no guards…
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Cross Naji Marshall off the list (27m/3yrs) to Dallas.
Also the Spurs have their PG… Chris Paul says he intends to sign with them. Honestly good for Chris. He’s not going to win a ring in SA but he gets to mentor a young team. Could be instrumental for Wemby and the rest of the young players in SA when they finally start contending. Count SA off the Garland list for the moment. Really looks like no major moves until the trade deadline for the Cavs.
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Mavs are dead set on Klay Thompson. Josh Green and Maxi Kleber are rumored to be on the block. Wouldn’t mind the Cavs trying to get Maxi Kleber, even if he’s injured quite a bit. Perfect compliment to both bigs. Only makes 11m a year to boot.
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Derrick Jones Jr to the Clippers for 30m/3yr.
Im starting to wonder if the Cavs forgot they have the MLE to spend… both Marshall and DJJ would’ve been upgrades at forward.
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Also Paul George not resigning with the Clippers and everything they gave up for him (all those picks plus SGA becoming a legit top 5 player) might be the worst trade in NBA history.
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The Sixers gave George that 4th year he was after. George gets a 4-year, $212M max deal from Philly.
After this deal is up George will have made over 600m dollars just by playing in the NBA. That doesn’t include any endorsements or anything. That’s unreal.
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One of the guys on the NBA Free Agency show I was watching last night said the young top starts of today who are 25 and under (Luka, etc) are going to amass contracts that will end up being over the $1B total dollar mark.
Yes. That is insane. You're worth what people will pay you and by all means everyone should get their money but... there's got to be some correction coming soon right? I've been wondering if there's going to be another round of "amnesty" cuts to let teams get their cap sheets back under control. Maybe the aprons contains this but I have my doubts. NBA owners will never spend responsibly. Just feels like we're about to enter league gridlock again.
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Spurs and GSW are heavily involved in the Lauri Markkanen sweepstakes... both would be good fits for him. Selfishly, outside of Cleveland of course, I'd love to see him go to the Spurs. If the Spurs land Mark they could be an interesting team. Whoever the next GM or President of Basketball Ops is for the Cavs I hope he's from San Antonio. They always make the right move even when they suck.
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Isaiah Hartenstein to OKC for 3 years, $87M.
Wheeew that's big for him but exactly what they needed. SGA/Caruso/JDub/Chet/Hart is as good of a starting 5 as any out there.
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They continue to be a fun team to watch.
The west is so stacked and the Wolves and OKC have both gotten better.
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For comedy sake Tobias Harris signed with the Pistons 2yr/56m and all I can think of is the Jessie Pinkman meme of "He can't keep getting away with this!". Highway robbery but get that bag Tobias.
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that Free Agency show last night was talking about the Pistons and how with the salary floor they will be forced to pay these kind of short-term, large contracts to stay within the required % of the cap. But yeah, Harris scored big time here.
Ah yes that makes sense. I guess Ivey and Duran aren't eligible for extensions yet either. It would've been more funny if Simone Fonteccio got that bag instead lol. Like if you're going to be a full train wreck commit all the way. Be the best of the worst! Well I guess they've tried that and it's only gotten them the 5th overall pick.
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Paul George disappears in the playoffs. Embiid will get hurt.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Still a hell of a lot better than dealing with another season of Tobias Harris.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Malfeasance
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There's some rumblings about the Cavs going after Jalen Smith PF/C of the Pacers. Most will forgiven if they can land someone like that as he complements both bigs and can play either the 4 or 5.
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He went to the Bulls this morning on a 3 year / 27 million dollar deal.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Don’t no what our plan is with the mid level, but I thought that would be the guy for it, and he wouldn’t have even taken all of it.
I’ve supported this front office, but they seem to be asleep at the wheel right now. I expected Mitchell to be locked up a week ago, and the longer that goes on, the less confident I feel.
well shit... must've missed that. That sucks.
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Feels like Spida is the elephant in the room, maybe that's explains why it feels like they are asleep at the wheel. Everything changes if he isn't sure ( yet ) about a long term deal. You can't make any moves until he's either here long term, or moved. Holding pattern until that gets done one way or the other..
The worst case version... they are dotting the I'd crossing the t's on Spida and Altman is just in full on same roster, new coach, we good mode..
A lot of people signaling Lauri Markkanen move coming... that's the dream imo... somehow move Allen and bring back Markkanen..
Go Bucks!!
The Cavs organization is at a serious crossroads here. They've demonstrated to the fanbase and to the league that they're content, and have little to no options to appreciably upgrade the roster. They don't have a bevy of draft picks or cap space. This team on paper will go no further than the 1st round of the playoffs going forward. Next season, they would do very well to avoid the play-in. I'm very disappointed, and if it weren't for maximum money earned, I wouldn't blame Donovan for wanting out. There is no pathway for him to win anything here. Koby refused to make any trade deadline moves 2 years in a row, and I doubt that will change next February. It's management malfeasance.
I believe Garland has peaked. His flaws are obvious and his weaknesses are problematic. He is what he is at this point, even if he's healthy. I don't have very much hope in Evan being much more than what he is. I gave up on him becoming a physical dominant force down low, and him being able to develop a game beyond alley-oop dunks and point blank range buckets. He isn't even a good FT shooter. JA cannot handle basketball played at the highest level (the playoffs). He shrunk big-time in 2023 and refused to come back from injury and play this year. That's a dawg-less mentality that is embedded in his DNA. I don't blame Donovan for taking his time with the extension, but I cannot imagine that he's pleased with running it back with the same team again. Given what the East looks like now, and for the future, I fully expect Donovan to ask for a trade in the next 12-18 months, provided he actually signs.
Klay Thompson to Dallas. End of an Era in GSW. Not like it's a bad fit with Luka and Kyrie but 3yr/50m for this version of Klay who goes 0-10 in an elimination game...
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I like this for Mavs, Klay isn't the old Klay, but he'll be asked to do less in Dallas and can just be a piece and not tasked with doing any of the heavy lifting.
Mavs get better, thats the goal :)
Go Bucks!!!!
Pretty indifferent about it. In theory it should be a good move and you can rationalize away his two years of struggles but also that just might be him now at this point, which is a non-factor on a contending team. I will say the Mavs is probably better than say the Lakers where there isn't the inherent pressure of playing for the franchise your dad used to play for.
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Just a much better situation for where he is at this point in career imo. GSW it was Curry, him and 50 year old CP3 doing almost all of the guard stuff. So much pressure on him to be old Klay..
Not only will he be the 3rd banana, he'll be the 3rd guard as well... he'll need to hit shots, but he'll get so many clean looks compared to what he saw last few years in GS..
Probably a reason to avoid the Lakers as well.. they would have needed more from him at the guard position...
Go Bucks!!!!
I think the role would be the same, both teams have plenty of other ball handlers to initiate offense, the Mavs are clearly the better team. I just have doubts on whether he can contribute like the Mavs would need him to come playoffs anymore but maybe a change in scenery is all he needs.
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Not really important, just something I found interesting and speaks to the value of NBA players and the franchises they play for in the conversation I was having with NH, but
Also did anyone know that the Haslem's owned an NBA team?
And another good point made by someone else about putting up the team now (not unlike what Cuban did last year) is the viability of regional sports networks. We've seen it with Bally/NEOhio/ect but they struggle in today's media environment and there's an uncertain future for the RSN. Owners who bought "low" might be looking to cash out while franchise value's are so high. It was rumored last year I believe that the NBA was trying out NBATV as the sole provider of NBA viewership and it'd be a pay to watch service not unlike Netflix/Hulu/Disney+ ect. That's still a long ways away though and I haven't heard anything about that anytime recently.
The Boston ownership also doesn't have to pay the huge repeater tax bill or be labeled as the bad guys when that team ultimately gets broken up in as soon as after next year.
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Haslam sports group has also been rumored to be first in line if the CBJ ever go up for sale..
Celtics will be a "steal" for someone... probably tick up over $5B, but that team/franchise is loaded...
Go Bucks!!!
I didn't realize they wanted to be the poor man's Stan Kroenke lol.
Celtics have one more year before they get his with the repeater second apron. It was always a two year window and luckily for them they got one last season. It will be very difficult for them to maneuver going forward after this year. and they just resigned Derrick White to 126m/4yrs.
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I dont think the new ownership will bat an eye at $100M tax hit after paying $5B+ for the team. The tax draft pick stuff doesn't hurt them much either imo, just moving the picks if they don't fall below the apron. That piece of it hurts teams spending and also sucking.
They've done a great job of extending their core. When they lock up JT they can have that team for 4 more seasons, maybe more. They can probably strategically use Horford retirement to drop below apron at some point.
Go Bucks!!!
Balmer got scared of the second apron and they have every reason to spend with their new stadium and draft equity belonging to other teams.
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Batum to the Clips for peanuts.. he's old AF, but $4M+ per year deal is CHEAP for his skillset. Solid depth piece ( on a contender )..
Go Bucks!!!
The least shocking update in the history of the NBA.
Go Bucks!!!
Lebron still has the opportunity to do the most hilarious thing in the NBA in a while and just go somewhere else.
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LeBron's days of playing for championships or anything meaningful in LA are over. I think he knows that. At this point, he is just chillin and relishing the opportunity of having the power of his team drafting his son.
Quote from Kenny Atkinson today.
Ugggggggg..
also today, from Altman just a bit ago from
Go Bucks!!!
Really wouldn't expect anything else from Atkinson. I'm sure he has ideas he thinks will work to keep those two together and successful.
This is Altman's problem now.
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So, I am no longer convinced Donovan will sign an extension here. This has been taking an uncomfortably long time, and the fact that we have watched several Eastern Conference teams get better, and us standing pat again is NOT a good sign. If you're a superstar franchise player like Donovan, and you see everyone else improving, you cannot be happy. I wouldn't be. If you take away money, there is no reason that Donovan would want to be here.
When someone is "invested" and "very pro Cleveland", but won't sign the extension.....something is going on. I think this is front office speak for "we are trying to leverage a team for an adequate trade" and "we are doing damage control".
He's also said repeatedly that he doesn't want anyone traded from the "core 4". Resigning isn't the issue, it's keeping him here and happy for the entire extension which I have very little faith the front office is capable of doing. He's going to resign and then probably ask to be traded in 2 years.
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There is absolutely no way he will play another 2 seasons here. This franchise is going absolutely nowhere. The front office is an incompetent joke. The Cavs will be back in the lottery by 2027, possibly sooner than that. Donovan will be out of here in 12 months or less, regardless if he signs. He has no reason to spend his prime years here, when he’ll never win anything. If that happens, we will need to trade Darius and hope to acquire picks. Evan is not a franchise player and JA is not worth keeping after his contract expires. I fully expect this team to get blown up sooner than you think. By the end of next season, the entire fan base will be calling for the exact same thing. You cannot continue to stubbornly stand pat while everyone gets better and expect to be taken seriously. Koby Altman will be gone after next season.
You should cry more. Jesus Christ.
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Nobody is crying lol. I have simply accepted where the franchise is headed. It is what it is. Deep down, you know what I’m saying is true. This team on paper is a 6 seed or 7 seed play-in team, at best. They’ll play either Boston, New York, Philly or Milwaukee in the 1st round and get ran through like the Hawk Tuah chick. This franchise will look unrecognizable in 12 months.
Could not care less about your hyperbolic belly aching. It’s unbecoming and rather annoying.
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What would be the point of that though? No matter what he says publicly, we've seen the ceiling of that group. He's either all in or he's not. If you are going to sign and trade him, do it now. Why wait until he's almost 30 years old and risk and injury and then you are screwed BIG TIME, and his value could be considerably less for a lots of different reasons. If he's waffling, find a trade partner, move on.. if he's all in, build around him and move past this dumb "core 4" crap... it doesn't work.. we had a back end of the season and the playoffs that proved it didn't work.
Go Bucks!!!
Yea I would try and S&T him now too but the FO doesn’t want to make any moves. I would say he “buys in” resigns, is unimpressed the first year, wants out by the next trade deadline and gets traded the following offseason. So roughly 2 years from now.
If the idea of the “core 4” is so obviously bad to us I don’t know how it can’t be obvious to the FO.
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Warriors just signed De'Anthony Melton. That's a nice swap for Klay. Woj reporting they are going hard after Lauri Markkanen as well.
Go Bucks!!!!
Celtics' Jayson Tatum agrees to 5-year, $314M deal
Go Bucks!!!
Such crazy money.
Also, the Celtics are now for sale and the price I heard on the news up here was an estimated $4.7Billion.
It's Monopoly money at this point. Their payroll will be over $200M next season, lux tax galore, and they wont care because they are betting on the team to print money in the playoffs.... and repeat..
Go Bucks!!!!
The number of cry babies there are in this thread are unbelievable. I think we should be making moves as well, but there’s reason to still believe this team can substantially improve.
Mitchell is obviously the team’s Batman, and a complete stud. Evan showed what he can be during the Celtics series and, while he still needs to get stronger, he can easily be a 20+ ppg guy. If he can maintain the three-point shooting he exhibited after coming back from injury on higher volume, he has all star written all over him. Allan is what he is. He’s a great dude and a great player. If he can actually be that guy in the playoffs, he’s a huge value add. Even Garland, as much as I dislike him, has been an all star. That player exists inside him. If he can get back to that form this team can be very good.
I don’t know a thing about whether Atkinson will be a good coach, but he’s supposed to be a great developer of young players, and a great offensive mind, and just because he’s those things doesn’t mean Allan and Mobley are going to forget how to play defense. This will still be a serviceable defensive team, at minimum, going forward. So if Atkinson can just do what he was brought in to do - find peak offensive versions of Garland and Mobley - this team can still improve dramatically simply through internal growth.
I still don’t necessarily agree with it, but I understand wanting to give the new coach a chance to do just that before figuring out what pieces to move.
It's just frustrating. This teams ceiling and maybe a window to actually contend rests in the hands of Altman.
Mobley is going into his 4th year, there is a MOUNTAIN of data that tells you he's better at the 5 and the team is better with him at the 5. You can say them same thing about Garland and Spida and Mobley and Allen overlapping. More than enough statistical data that shows too much overlap and that the team gets much better when those guys don't share the floor. I suppose you could bring Allen and Garland off the bench? but then they would have to get creative filling out the other starting spots.
Maybe move Allen, Niang and LeVert, and then let Garland cook with the 2nd unit.
I don't know, again frustrating, same feeling you get when you watch the Lakers or Suns and other teams. Solid pieces, that just don't fit together.
That Celtics staring 5 works well together, same thing for the Nuggets the year before..
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I 100% agree that there are issues with the roster. If it were up to me, Garland would have had a different home by last season’s trade deadline. I understand all the data that says certain players don’t mesh well, but at the same time, there’s also a mountain of data that shows this team can be elite defensively as currently constructed. If an offensive coach can add even 5-10 points per game to this team without abandoning that defensive identity with Allan and Mobley, then we all could be dramatically happier as fans, even without the sweeping changes that everyone is calling for.
To me, it’s more upsetting that there haven’t been any auxiliary moves this off-season, let alone some big trade with the core four. If the front office thinks Atkinson can get that 5-10 point change out of the team, then I’m fine giving this core another bite at the apple, even though that isn’t what I would do. At minimum though, it feels like we should have used our mid level by now on a player like Jalen Smith, or made a move for one of the Hawks less expensive pieces like Hunter or Bogdanovic. So I understand the frustration. I just wish people would stop acting like we’re getting ready to trot Jamario Moon and Boobie Gibson out there this year. This is still a playoff team, and that’s worth something.
Don’t forget Alonzo Gee in that big three. Anthony Parker and that’s a big 4.
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Mitchell resigned 150m/3yr. Player option for his 3 year.
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Good and bad imo. Short term love it, but probably zero chance the Cavs pay that next contract, so this is the window. Time to not f8ck around.
They got 2 years... don't waste the first one running it back with a core that can't win the whole thing..
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I see it as they have 1 to make a huge impression before we do this all over again. No moves yet AND a 3 year deal… does not make UCB feel good.
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Yeah, I think it's a two year window. Player option isn't until year 4. We'll be back ( in a worse place probably ) in that 26/27 season, the year before his player option 27/28.
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It's short term becuase because it lines up with Mitchell hitting the 10-year service level, which makes him eligible to earn like 35% more or something like that.
That is what I heard Windy say the other day. This 3-year deal (instead of 4) was expected.
Now lets get to work, Cavs Front Office.
Yup, and as I said above, I can't imagine the Cavs are going to pay a dude $75m per year into his mid 30s.
They now have a window... get to work..
Go Bucks!!
It’s two fold, yes he hits the 10 year number but he also keeps the Cavs FO accountable and can get out before he’s 30.
Cavs are obviously going to spin it as so he can re-up one year quicker. It’s really so Mitchell holds all the leverage.
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Glad that I was wrong and Don actually signed. I know it's only for 3 years, but I get it, because with the 10-year service criteria, he stands to earn so much more in 2027.
So, this looks like a 2 year window at most. Koby needs to do something now.
I’m skeptical that Cleveland will be the team paying Mitchell his 5yr/380m extension but today’s not really about that. There’s work to do but let’s be happy this is a golden era of stars in Cleveland. Garrett/Mitchel/Ramirez/Chubb… Cleveland’s got dudes across all the sports. Great day for Cleveland.
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It is a great day for Cleveland. If the Guardians can make a deep playoff run, and Chubb can get back to 80% of what he was, it should be a great next 6 months for the city.
We can agree on that!
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It's weird to me that some of you are skeptical that the Cavs organization will spend money
They haven't spent money, compared to the top spenders of the league, since LeBron left. I can't imagine any world where current ownership ponies up $75M a year for 5 years for a 30 year old Donovan Mitchell.
They also have strategically put themselves well below the tax apron.
imo any "spending" they do will be via salary in salary out trades, or marginal short term low dollar deals to stay under tax apron.
Gilbert isn't suddenly going to become the Celtics and say who cares about lux tax.
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Totally understand where you're coming from. $75M/year is a ton. However, your point on where they haven't spent money since LeBron left is because they've essentailly been rebuilding with promising players (Garland and Mobley) on rookie contracts. They went out and spent money on Strus and Niang (LOL) last year so now that they have that guy in Mitchell, they'll spend money IMO. I just don't see them letting Mitchell walk just because he's going to cost a ton.
When I say spent money, I just mean spending in a chase of winning the whole thing. These days you can't win an NBA championship without paying luxury tax, and the Cavs don't want to pay luxury tax.
Cavs championship cost them $53M in luxury tax...
There's just no way around that in today's NBA. You are bringing a knife to gun fight if you consistently stay below the tax aprons.
Cavs now 6 straight seasons without a tax bill, and won't be any different this season. Payroll will end up around 15th, middle of the pack, despite having a roster close enough to bet on imo
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This take gets more comical every time.
You either don’t understand what correlation is or don’t understand the nba salary cap.
Or both.
Agree totally on having to enter the luxury tax to win. But to my point, they've been without a tax bill because they were rebuilding so it didn't make any sense to enter into the luxury tax. I think if the window to win a title presents itself, Gilbert will have no qualms about enter the luxury tax.
Cavs got out of the tax when Lebron left the first time and didn’t get back into until he came back.
You go into the tax once you think you have a roster that’s almost ready to win a title. If you go to early, you’re stuck with a roster not good enough and little ways to improve.
And that's where the disagreement will be among Cavs fans. I thought ( and plenty of people did ) this past year they were a few pieces away from being a legit contender, and they didn't really do anything, and then did zip at the deadline.
Things could change, but every signal so far as been just running back something that didn't work.. I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case..
If your GM isn't savvy enough to get you into lux tax and out of it when needed to take some swings.. then maybe you need a new GM..
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There’s no getting out of the luxury tax when needed. You just have to eat contracts until they are off the books. Thats why getting in is tricky.
If your argument was “they should’ve gone for it last year”, then fine.
But argument is “Dan Gilbert won’t pay the luxury tax which is absurd.
I don’t think Gilbert spends indiscriminately to maintain the fifth best team in the East. However if there’s a real 2 year window where the Cavs can realistically win a championship he will 100% spend the money and go into the second apron. The goal should be getting to that position, which they are not.
Also 30 isn’t bad anymore. There might be 1 or 2 years on the backend where Mitchell declines but there would be more good years than bad on that deal. If Mitchell wants to stay for that deal that means the Cavs did something right and they’re competing for a championship and thus you spend. Which I think Gilbert will.
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That’s because they haven’t had a reason to. No rebuilding team would ever voluntarily go above the luxury tax, unless it was extremely short term and doing so allowed that team to bring in additional assets.
The new CBA punishes repeaters hard, and the aprons start to restrict player movement, so teams have to be strategic about when they go over the threshold. Once you’re up there in salary and you become a repeater, it becomes nearly impossible to keep your roster together. Gilbert isn’t Dolan. He’s always been more than willing to spend, but teams have to be smart about it. Two years ago, Mobley was coming off a rookie of the year worthy campaign and we traded for Mitchell. It was easy to look into the future and see when both of their extensions would kick in. That’s the mark. That’s when we’re guaranteed to go into the tax, and, IMO, that’s when our window starts.
But that’s also why it was smart not to go over the tax last season. It delayed the clock another year. In fact, the inevitability of going over the tax for the 25-26 season is why you might see the Cavs try to sneak under the tax line again this year. Because once you’re over it, you have three years to stay there before becoming a repeater and likely being forced to strip parts of your roster away. Those three seasons - from 25-26, to 27-28 - coincide with the prime years of nearly every meaningful player on the roster, and that’s likely the timeframe when Gilbert will do whatever he has to in order to “go for it”.
Just because he hasn’t done it yet, doesn’t mean it won’t eventually happen.
This x 1,000,000. Going into the tax just to go into the tax is brain dead stupid in the new CBA (see: Suns, Phoenix). Once you get to that second apron, you're going to get hammered both financially and in roster restrictions. You can essentially hold onto what you have, but you're locked out of almost all meaningful ways to improve. As an example, a second apron team can't pick up buyout free agents whose original salary was above a certain price point.
The Cavs will get there with the Mobley and Mitchell maxes, and there was no reason to start the repeater clocks a year early for at best marginal improvements.
Glad they signed Mitchell, and I commend him for re-upping with the Cavs........but the FO can't stand pat on what the roster is right now. As has been said above, we'll only have him for 2 years, possibly 3. The time to move up in the Eastern Conference is now. A lot of teams are making moves to improve themselves. The Celtics, Sixers(Paul George), and Knicks(Mikal Bridges) all look formidable, and if the Cavs do nothing, they'll have another good season of 50 wins or so, but will once again fall short of the EC title.
I hate speculating about behind the scenes stuff when I have no actual information.
But Mitchell doesn’t sign without at least a semblance of a plan to improve the team, right?
I don’t mind not dipping into FA yet because the early part of FA is mediocre players getting overpaid in a lot of cases. And trading Garland/Allen was always the best way to improve.
I’d have DJJ for 10m a year, Naji Marshall for 9m a year or Jalen Smith for 11m a year. Those are Exocets they could’ve made that’s not overpaying for mediocrity. Niang makes 8.5m a year and they’re all better than he is.
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Yeah Niang is a worse contract than those, but I don’t see any of them as needle movers.
If we do nothing than sitting out this phase of FA looks way worse.
Needle movers? Not in the singular sense that they as players the difference between winning a championship or losing one. They do however provide quality depth and production for a reasonable price and that is needed.
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It wouldn’t shock me at all of the plan was to essentially see what Atkinson can do with this group for next season, before hitting the throttle and making big moves next season after seeing where the improvements come from.
I alluded to it in an earlier post, but it makes financial sense to wait to go into the tax until the last possible minute. For the Cavs, that’s the 25-26 season when Mitchell and Mobley’s extensions kick in. So it wouldn’t surprise me if we spend very little this off-season, with the plan of going all in for a 3-4 year stretch starting in 2025.
Spida's comments don't match up though, so if he signs you'd have to think his eternal comments closer to the truth. You can't say publicly don't break up the core 4, and then have you and your agent say, for us to sign this team needs to make a deeper run in the playoffs, every year...
The core 4 and deep run don't coexist. Replacing Thompson or Marcus morris types isn't going to move the needle.. they need a big swing or two to fix the issues they have.
I suspect they needed to actually sign Spida before they did anything, and they shouldn't be in a rush, but you do start to run out of dance partners the longer they wait.. Like both the Spurs and and Pels appeared to have interest in Garland, and those spots are dead now.
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I mean, Chris Paul is like, 50 years old… he’s not exactly the spurs PG of the future. The Spurs could very much still want Garland, but without conceding Vassell, no deal will ever get done there.
They drafted Stephon Castle at number 4, and brought in CP3 to mentor him.. they appear to be set imo..
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That’s fair. I guess I just don’t see Castle as a PG. To me, I see him as a SG.
Golden State just picked up Kyle Anderson for $9M per season... man, that's another dude, at an affordable price that I would have LOVED.. so versatile..
Warriors swapping Klay for Melton and Kyle Anderson, and rumored to be in on Lauri still.... reload...
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Another punch to the dick
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LeBron signs a two-year, $104 million max contract with LA.
Should've gone the comedy route and left, no balls
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Is there another example ( In any sport ) of a dude still near the top, making big money, who was just content playing for a franchise who wasn't going anywhere? I know some dudes had big deals that just had to play out ( couldn't trade them, they were older etc).
But LeBron can still play, and could have played for any team this season he wanted to...
Its just such and odd way ( imo ) to wind down your career... especially for a dude who had no problem moving around chasing rings in the past..
I mean.... imagine Luka, Irving and LeBron... or Embiid, Lebron and Maxey... and plenty of other scenarios...
Go Bucks!!!
Kobe
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Yeah, but that's like Trout, same team... similar I guess, but something nice about finishing where you started imo... I at least get that...
I've heard some people suggest maybe it's just a Laker legacy thing.. that if you ask lifelong Lakers fans to name their top 5 Lakers, his name never comes up.... maybe more years puts him in that group of people, I tend to think it never will, he'll always be seen as a Cav who played for other teams...
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Dirk too (but that's like Kobe). He's probably just comfortable there and now gets to play with Bronny. Maybe under different circumstances he'd be more motivated to try and chase 6 rings but there's nothing left for him to prove at this point. If he went to a contending team people would say those rings don't count.
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It's actually crazy that if he came back to Cleveland, we would probably be a top 2-3 favorite to win it all. Guarding Donovan and LeBron would be an absolute nightmare for anyone. That's a lot of explosive athleticism. Even at his age, LeBron is still a force. But, I totally understand that he would want to play with his son, and get his career off to a good start. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. LeBron has accepted that his championship winning days are over. He has nothing left to prove.
Warriors said to be working on trades for both Lauri and Buddy Hield.... what a total reload if they can pull all that off with Melton and Anderson...
So far nothing for the Cavs. Windy reported there's ZERO trade market for Garland right now.. no interest.. sounds like Okoro is asking for $20M, and again, zero interest...
Hearing a lot of people say the Spida deal is basically creates a one year window. The deal took a little longer because Cavs were pushing hard for 4 years, and in the end didn't get that. His trade value goes down significantly after two years, hence the one year window basically.. as UB mentioned above somewhere, we'll just be back in the same place next year ( most likely) but the new deal gives the Cavs much greater trade potential because he'd have 2 years left on his deal..
Tick tock Altman...
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I'm surprised Hield isn't trying to go back to Philly. He's the perfect option at the 2 for them.
I do wonder if that zero interest is League driven or Cavs driven. There was some talk a few weeks ago about Garland trades but that was shut down by Altman. If teams know a player isn't available then they'll stop calling. Same with Allen.
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The only people saying that are the people who can’t imagine Mitchell is actually happy in Cleveland. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have signed an extension, he would have used his leverage (who he’d be willing to sign an extension with) to dictate who he got traded to, and he would have signed there.
With two years left on his deal, teams he might not want to go to could trade for him in the hopes that he changes his mind - like he did in Cleveland. The idea that he would sign with the Cavs and give up that leverage only to ask for a trade a year later is ridiculous. He signed. He’s going to be here for two more years, minimum. And he’s comfortable with what the team is currently doing, because I’m sure he wouldn’t have signed without knowing exactly what the front office’s plan is.
So the national media can GTFO with their shitty takes.
Sorry if I didn't spell out what I was saying so it made sense :) I was listening to different radio programs and some smart basketball people weren't talking about the Cavs being happy with Spida or vice versa. It was about the Cavs pushing for that 4th year, because if the Cavs want to move him ( for any reason) the real payday is to do it with 2 years left on his deal.
That the Cavs wanted a 2 year window with a 4 year deal, but had to settle for a 1 year window with the 3 year deal...
It wasn't about Spida asking for a trade.. it was the trade stuff will just naturally come up again this time next year, because his trade value will be significantly more than waiting another year, or zero if you wait 3..
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Isaac is asking for $20M per year. Yeah....No. That's kooky talk. Teams would laugh at him and his agent. Don't be surprised if Isaac takes the Qualifying Offer and plays out this year. Yes, he is a plus defender, but nobody respects him on offense.
It makes sense that Darius has no trade market, because nobody in their right mind would take on his crazy contract after how he's looked in the playoffs the last 2 years. He's looked awful. People have seen his weaknesses on defense and ball-handling habits that cause turnovers. I'm not sure that Darius is built for playoff basketball, physically or mentally. He isn't going anywhere.
If we are serious about keeping Donovan beyond the next 2 years, this team has to make changes or trades. All I know is this: If Strus is our starting small forward again, I'm not gonna be too happy. He's a B- minus player at best. If I see Georges Niang play another full season here, I'm gonna be doubly pissed. I really wish that Evan would finally morph into Kevin Garnett 2.0, and I hope I'm wrong about this, but I'm beginning to believe that he just is what he is. We'll see.
Dillion Brooks is making 20m a year. Just because the Cavs can't pay him that doesn't mean he's not worth that.
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If Isaac was able to average 12-14 points per game and be a plus defender like Dillon Brooks is, that would be a different story. Remember, Isaac is a former top 5 draft pick. That comes with expectations. It comes with the territory. If he wants $20 million per year, I would balk at that. I would however give him a 4 year, $50 million deal, with the 4th year being a team option. I think for the production he gives, that's an acceptable offer. If he declines that? Bye. I don't consider him to be an untouchable.
Dillion Brooks was one of the worst volume shooters before he got paid that. Plus he's a clown.
15-16m a year is all the Cavs can really afford. If he takes that deal great, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't or can't get 20m a year somewhere else.
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Oh, there's no question about that. Him and Draymond are the biggest douche-canoes in the league, even though Draymond has no equal. Can't stand either of them.
If Isaac was able to average 12-14 points per game, I would be overjoyed. Like, thrilled. That would be equal to or better than any trade we could make.
He's never been asked to do anything outside of hit an occasional shot. You can't say he can't do something when he's never been given the opportunity.
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His shooting splits in the last 2 playoffs don't inspire confidence that he would be worth a contract anywhere near $20 million per year. We need actual 3 level scoring threats on offense to compete with the vastly improved Eastern Conference, and respectfully, Isaac is not that.
Sometimes, the best move you make is not to make a move at all. I would NOT overpay to keep Isaac Okoro. I'm sure he's a great kid, and it isn't personal. He just never lived up to his top 5 draft status.
I never understood drafting a 6'5" wing player that can't shoot and has zero offensive skills....good defender but that's it....should never have drafted a guy like him before the 2nd round.
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This is a bad take. Okoro was the best defender in college basketball as a freshman. He has some elite athletic traits. His college profile was very similar to Kawhi Leonard (who shot sub 30% from 3 as a sophomore). He was a guy who, if you could teach him to shoot, he could be a star. Imagine if he could just get to a point where he could simply become dependable from 3. He would quite literally be exactly what this team needs.
If he hasn't learned how to shoot yet, he isn't going to...I can't think of one player that all of a sudden in their 6th year in the league went from being a terrible shooter to a good one.
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Didn't realize 39% from 3 means he can't shoot or that going from 29% to 35% to 36% to 39% form three means he won't get better.
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Almost all of his 3pt attempts are from the corner baseline and are unguarded. Defenses give the Cavs that shot since they know they are better off rotating his defender to help against DM, DG and clogging the paint down low against EM and JA.
Also, he shot in the mid-20’s from 3 in the playoffs as defensive intensity is much higher than in the regular season.
Okoro is still an awful outside shooter and hurts our offense tremendously.
Sorry facts don't jive with your feelings.
Hitting corner 3s is essential because it provides the most spacing for the offense. You're going to get open threes when you have two guards that can penetrate and distribute like Cavs do. That's somehow a bad thing that he gets open three's? Teams are better off helping off Okoro because it'll turn into a layup line if they don't.
He also shot 20 whatever in the playoffs because his main assignment in both series was guarding all NBA forwards and both teams first and second options. That's going to take away your legs and ability to shoot.
Not many 23 year olds are finished products, physically/mentally/skillwise. He's gotten better every year. My guess is he will continue to get better because that's what his track record says.
Just shocks me when there's a young player that has shown growth over 4 seasons and fans shit on the guy.
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Sorry but the facts absolutely support my view that he’s a very poor offensive player
Check any of the major ranking services of small forwards in the league and he’s in the 40-50 range. Thats in a league with 30 teams. It means he’s not a starting quality player at the position. He’s a defensive specialist and you can try to twist his offensive stats like a pretzel and it wont change that.
He’s a poor offensive player who doesn’t rebound either. Defensive specialist only. It’s not “shitting on him” it’s a realistic assessment.
They don't.
https://www.82games.com/2324/2324CLE1.HTM
https://www.82games.com/2324/2324CLE2.HTM
The offense doesn't get worse with him on the floor. The Cavs best offensive lineups from last year routinely had him on the floor.
I don't need to "pretzel" anything. There's 2+ years worth of forum discussions on here where I've never said he was a starting SF. I've only maintained he doesn't suck. People hate because he's more Tony Allen than Taysean Prince.
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There is reportedly a sign and trade offer on the table with the Nets: Okoro for Cam Johnson. The hesitation is it’s going to cost most or all of the Cavs second round picks (5) in the next three years.
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Doesn't Johnson have 3 more years on his contract?
Yes, almost $70M guaranteed... I will never understand how these teams want to dump salary. and somehow the Cavs have to pay for that. and everyone else gives basically nothing away..
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I don’t think it’s a salary dump. I think they’re trying to get players on their timeline and Okoro being 23 With upside probably appeals more than Johnson being 28 and is what he is.
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Why on earth would they do that?? Warriors just got Buddy Hield for a 2nd round pick, one of them..
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Well that’s the hesitation. The Nets want most or all of the picks and the Cavs only want to include 1-2 would be my guess.
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Who cares about second round picks? They’re worthless and Johnson is lightheaded better than Okoro. The hesitation is that would start the Cavs clock with the luxury tax. But it would be 100% worth it.
Because they traded all of their first round picks through 2029. They would have no draft picks for 5 years.. it would be idiotic.
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They’ll have their first round picks in 26 and 28. And I repeat, second round picks are worthless. That trade - if it’s a real thing - is a chance to substantially improve the team. You’re not getting anything close to a cam Johnson in the second round of the nba draft. Nor are you getting anything near cam Johnson by trading Okoro along. What would you rather they use those picks for???
Not as worthless for luxury tax teams as they can sign them to 4 year near rookie minimum contracts. You have to have a good scouting department but second round picks are starting to be seen as ways to get cheap role players.
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Who reported that?
I thought it was Chris Fedor but I read it wrong. Probably nothing.
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Rumors popping up about Miles Bridges as well. I know he’s a shitty human being, but he’s theoretically a perfect basketball fit for what the Cavs need.
No thanks
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That’s fine, but a trade for him seems logistically more plausible than one for Johnson. It would be very similar to what GS and Dallas just pulled off that allowed GS to add Buddy Hield. We send Okoro somewhere for a second rounder or two, then those picks go to Charlotte for Bridges. We get a legitimate starting SF for nothing more than a guy that half the fan base wanted us to let walk anyway, and we get that guy for well below market value for a someone of his talent because of his obvious character flaws.
For the record, I’d much rather have Johnson, and I hate having someone like that on the team, but it’s easier to stomach when the rest of the team are essentially choir boys. If you really want to improve the team and jump into contender status, that’s the kind of move that helps get you there.
No I get that I just don’t think he’s worth the headache.
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Bridges resigns with Charlotte. I’m good with that.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40508292/sources-miles-bridges-horne...
The FO mortgaged the team's future for DM but have done a poor job of improving the cast around him and it appears they are going to live and die with DM as the "man" for the near term. However, the Celtics, Knicks, Sixers and maybe the Magic look better going into the 24-25 season. I do not see how they can improve now to keep pace other than a better offensive scheme with Mobley improving leaps and bounds going into the season.
Hopefully the new HC can get more out of them than Bickerstaff did.
I know it's a moot point, but I wonder where the team would be if they would have kept LM and built around that core and used their draft capitol more efficiently?
Bucks got better as well imo. Delon Wright allows them to hide Dame on defense. That's massive. They need to stay healthy, but if they can, they'll be right there..
Wildcard is Jimmy Butler, Miami would still be relevant with him, but without him, they take a major hit... but if they lose him, does he stay in the East?
I think the Cavs still have some chess pieces to move around ( Niang, LeVert). You need to stay healthy and work the regular season games off thing, but like the Celtics gave Horford some time off in playoff games, and then their stars played basically the whole game in the playoffs.. you can get by with just dudes in the regular season, just get in.. and then do the short bench thing. Denver did the same thing the year before..
Go Bucks!!!
They didn’t mortgage anything in the Mitchell trade. Mitchell IS the future here. Three firsts and a handful of role players is extremely reasonable for a top 15ish player who hasn’t even hit his prime yet. I wish people would stop complaining about us trading Markkanen. Exactly one year earlier the Bulls gave him to us for nothing! And the year he spent here was solid-not-spectacular. No one could have predicted he’d become a two-time all-star with the Jazz, and I maintain he wouldn’t be that if he were still on the Cavs. He gets opportunities in Utah he never would have got with us and he benefits from being able to stack stats on a shitty team.
It seems like the Cavs are playing for the 2025-27 seasons, and waiting a bit for the changing of the guard. By that time all those teams you listed, other than Orlando could have serious issues. Milwaukee is on their second year as a repeater and are aging and falling apart. The Knicks just lost their best post presence and are going to jump straight into the second apron. The Celtics lose their entire bench after this year, which will Coincide with them becoming a repeater. They then loss Porzingas the year after that. The Sixers are literally a three man team and they have no cap left to build a bench. Meanwhile, the Cavs young core can continue to grow and improve. I wish they would have made a move this year as well, but I at least understand the reasoning behind what they’re doing.
Philly plans on waiving Bball Paul. Would be nice as a backup 5.
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Philly plans on waiving Bball Paul. Would be nice as a backup 5.
Now i become Boob Salsa, grifter of men.
Undercoverbuck: Thanks for the updates on the Cavs. I'm still hoping the FO upgrades the roster for a better 2024-25 season. 50-55 wins would be nice, but we've been there before.
We have an Assistant Coach onboard.
https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/cleveland-cavaliers-pluck-new-york...
That’s great. He was rumored early to be a candidate for the HC job.
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I hate talking about the Knicks but this affects all the teams in the East (and we finally know the price of friendship) but Brunson signs a 156m/4yr extension leaving 116m on the table. Unprecedented in the modern NBA. The Knicks are here to stay.
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Announced Bridges also going to take a pay cut to stay with Knicks and give them roster flexibility. As you said, they are going to be a problem.
Go Bucks!!!
The price of friendship… hate those guys.
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Obviously means Knick ownership is afraid to go into the luxury tax, meaning they aren’t serious about winning.
Are the Cavs planning to do anything that improves the team this offseason? Have they given up now that both Boston and NY and Phila seem to be head and shoulders above everyone else in the East? If that is the thought (I can see it), why are we not trading players for assets to rebuild for the next window?
While I understand the frustration of the team not making any moves, holy shit, Garland and Mobley are still two/three years away from hitting their prime, and Allan and Mitchell should just now be entering it! What do you mean rebuild for the “next window”? We haven’t even hit this window yet!
Also, why in God’s name would we start tearing things down right when we lose control of our first round picks for the next five years? How does that make any sense?
I’ve said it before, but it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the off-season plan was basically - see what a coach with an offensive pulse can do with our young core while staying under the tax for one more season. I hate it because, as a fan, I want the team constantly going for it, but there is logic in delaying our repeater clock for another season while money starts to tighten for all the teams you just mentioned. It’s already tightening on Milwaukee and Miami, and it’ll start tightening on Boston by next offseason. The Cavs can see how the team grows this year with Atkinson before trying to make a bigger move next year, right when they’re set to go over the tax and start their three-year clock.
I’m sure if the right guy became available for the right price right now, the team would be willing to start their clock a year early for it, but I’m not sure what that move would be at this point. Brandon Ingram isn’t that guy. Cameron Johnson probably isn’t either (and that’s if we even had the draft capital required to pull that trade off). Deandre Hunter? Bogdanovic? Harrison Barnes? They’d all make the team better, but are they worth starting our clock early for? You get a giant shrug emoji from me on that question.
So the plan all along was to trade for a win now player and waste 3 years of his window.
Like it or not, when they traded for Mitchell. they sped the clock up...but haven't done a damn thing to open the window...if I'm Mitchell I'm hugely frustrated...if they run the same team back this year nothing will change...they will win about 48 games...probably drop to a 5 or 6 seed and have a first round exit once again...if that happens, and I'm Mitchell, I'm asking to be traded.
There is no "growth" that will make this team better....you have too much reduncies...2 undersized guards that are both ball dominant....and 2 bigs that can't shoot outside...that's not going to change. Allen or Mobley aren't going to all of sudden hit 3s at high volumes and Mitchell or Garland aren't going to grow 4 inches to become average sized.
Let's Go Bucks
Good lord, are you a Debbie Downer… “Beware! The Cavs future is dark and full of terrors!”
They traded for Mitchell in an attempt to become a legitimate playoff team in the present. Two straight 4-seeds says the trade accomplished that. But becoming a contender always depended on Garland and Mobley’s growth. That much hasn’t changed, and it’s fair to want to see if an offensive coach can actually coax that potential out of them, before blowing shit up, as so many impatient fans want them to do.
I’m on the record as being a serious Garland doubter, and wishing for him to get traded. But even I know trading him now would be a sell-low proposition. Dude was an all star three years ago for a reason. That player still exists in there. If an offensive coach can revive that version of Garland, how much better does this team become? And if he can’t, they can always trade him next year.
Mobley was banged up this year as well, but after he returned, he shot something like 39% from 3 for the rest of the season. He doesn’t even need to keep that up in order to help the Cavs grow. All he has to do is be able to keep defenses honest. If he can even shoot 36% on increased volume, suddenly his pairing with Allan isn’t bad at all, and we still get to reap the benefits of having two elite run protectors on the floor. If an offensive coach can grow Mobley into that player, how much better does this team become? And if he can’t, we can always trade Allan next year.
Who knows what will happen next year. Could both those things happen? Unlikely, but maybe? But even one of those things happening helps the Cavs decide what direction to go.
In my post that you replied to, I posed the question, who out there - that the Cavs could realistically get with their limited assets - is worth going over the luxury tax and starting our 3-year-clock a year early for? In your post, you did a lot of whining, but posted no solutions. It was all “this team sucks,” and, “this team has no future,” and “Mitchell should request a trade!” But what move would you have made this off-season that would have launched the Cavs into true contender status this year? Because that seems to be your standard. No, “well, they could really grow into something in two years when some other teams start to decline!” It’s all championship in 24-25 or bust!
While I too want them to make some moves, remember the Mitchell trade didn’t happen until September, so there’s a long way to go this offseason.
Tyson's having a pretty solid summer league debut. 15pts/8reb against the Magic. 14pts/7reb/4ast against the Bucks. Stinker against GSW but had a low usage game and still added 4 reb/4ast/2stl. Could do a lot worse at no.20 than a jack of all trades, master of none wing role player.
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Undercoverbuck: Any way that Tyson could work his way into the rotation for next season?
Status quo (meaning Okoro comes back and no major roster moves) I think he can maybe work into the back end of the rotation by the end of the season. Players that will play over him right now are Levert, Strus, Okoro, and Wade plus you factor in the 2 small guard lineups and Tyson isn't getting minutes at the 4.
He won't (nor shouldn't) be rushed but this is more about 2025-26 than 2024-25. He'll see some action but without a significant injury or two it'd be hard for him to get regular minutes unless he absolutely pops.
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Of course I say that and Tyson puts on a masterpiece performance tonight: 21pts/10reb/9ast with 6 mins left in the 4th.
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Undercoverbuck: Thanks for your input, and I watched him last night too. He looked good, but as you said right now it looks like that might be a longshot for next year's rotation. One thing I would like to see is whether Emoni Bates is ready to contribute some significant minutes. I just don't want his career to be mostly Summer League basketball.
I think Tyson gave us a peak at what his ceiling could look like, and that's a high usage (when on the court) bench player that fills the stat sheet up off the bench. He'll never see that role in the starting lineup, not with Garland and Mitchell on the team at least, but having someone who who's 6'7 initiating offense or possibly being a secondary playmaker is a great asset to have on the team.
I'll still stick with Bates is a year away. He's a flamethrower but I get zero sense that he understands how to play basketball. I think he understands how to get a bucket, just needs to continue to fill out and learn professional basketball. I think Atkinson can help with that.
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Mobley isn’t a max player but the Cavs didn't have much of a choice so I digress.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
I don't think they had an option. He's now a top 10 paid player ( which is crazy ). Barring an injury though hard to imagine a version where it ends up being a terrible deal. Feels like worst case, and overpay for an above average player... with a lot of room for "best case"
What they do have an option of though. Getting rid of Allen. If you are going to pay Mobley that kind of money and build around him, and EVERY metric/data point on the planet tells you he's better and the team is better with him at center, then just build around that.
Go Bucks!!!
Cade Cunningham, Franz Wagner, and Scottie Barnes have all signed max extensions. Would you trade Mobley straight up for any of them? I wouldn’t. Cunningham is a stat-packer on the league’s worst team. And Wagner is talented, but doesn’t shoot particularly well, and when officials aren’t gifting him free throws, he can struggle to impact the game in a positive way. Barnes is the only one I’d even think twice about, simply because he’d be a better fit on the current team, but Mobley still has a higher ceiling.
Let’s assume that last season is Mobley’s floor as a player. That means at worst, you have a top 5ish defensive player who averages 16/9/3 as the fourth(!) highest usage player on the team.
What do his splits look like if he’s the third highest usage player? What if we commit to him being the second? What would his stats look like if he were on the jazz instead of Markkanen? I think you’d be looking at Mobley being a two-time all-star instead, and he’d probably be around 23/11/5 right now as a 23 year old defensive stud. That’s not even considering if his 37% 3pt shooting from last year can be sustained on higher volume.
I’d love to see Mobley and Garland’s usages flip. I hope Atkinson devotes all his attention to developing Mobley, and makes he and Mitchell the big two. Garland can stand in the corner and shoot threes and keep his lazy turnovers out of the game.
No, but this is what guys are paid.
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Cost of doing business these days. I don't think there was going to be another option with Evan. Hopefully he elevates his game under the new coaching staff.
Overall I'm happy for Evan and the Cavs - hopefully this is a great re-sign and he'll be even better than he was a year ago.
Stay healthy Evan - stay healthy.
Always try to look for the positive ........... in the midst of a crisis !!
Cheerish every single day
Paying Mobley that kind of money is absolutely bonkers. He's not a dominant player. He's not even what you would call a great player. He has a minimal offensive skill-set and doesn't have the physical tools or the alpha competitive spirit to be much more than he is now. He's very frustrating to watch.
But the truth is that the Cavs didn't have a choice. They don't have the money to pay a legit free agent, only current players under contract. They're gambling on him developing into a superstar that we know he'll never become. I'm concerned the Cavs will overpay their current roster just to keep the fans buying season tickets and maintain a modicum of competitiveness. I guess it's better than being a dogshit lottery team like Detroit and Charlotte.
Everything you post is angry and definitive. At 23 years old, you’ve already seen Mobley’s ceiling and your opinion can’t possibly be wrong. I don’t understand people who speak in absolutes like you do.
How did you go from this to…
… without another game ever being played?
Yes, he played well in an elimination game. But that doesn't mean that he now deserves to be paid like a bonafide superstar. Unfortunately he's not, and I don't think he ever will be. I'm NOT saying he can't or won't get better. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely that he'll be an All-Star caliber player or a franchise cornerstone. We are now paying him as if he is. We are already paying Garland as if he's a top 5 point guard. Cavs don't have the luxury of being on the hook for several max contracts that prevent them from becoming a contender, which is what we all want.
Let me say that I DON'T dislike Evan at all. Let me also say that I'm glad we have him, and that he'll be here for a while. He's a really good kid, who comes from a great family (I met them and set next to them in LA when we played the Lakers. His parents were very cool). Evan is a lengthy, plus defender, and that's great. I had expectations of him becoming a fringe All-Star kind of player. I knew that he was raw physically and needed to fill out. I understood that, but it hasn't happened. To now pay him north of $40 million annually when he doesn't average anywhere near 20 points per game, is still VERY underweight for his position, and hasn't developed his game is a legitimate concern. If this team has any aspirations of being anything more than a 1st-2nd round stepping stone for an elite team, Evan needs to at least become a poor man's Kevin Garnett. Evan still has a boat load of development ahead of him, and I hope he plays up to that contract.
It’s interesting that you bring up Kevin Garnett, as through the first three years of his career he slashed 15.3/8.5/3, compared to Mobley’s 15.7/9.5/3… Garnett was also 6th in his ROY voting (compared to Mobley’s 2nd) and not higher than 11th in DPOY (compared to Mobley’s 3rd).
Garnett also never showed any ability to extend his game beyond the three point line, only shooting more than one 3-pointer per game once in his career, and only shooting better than .330 from three once on his 22 seasons. He did this while being a clear top-two scoring option for his team (with Tom Gugliotta), and thus being allowed to fully grow and develop his offensive game.
Garnett then exploded by year five when he was the defensive POY and second in the MVP voting.
I say all this, not to call Evan Mobley the next Kevin Garnett (I don’t ever see him becoming an MVP candidate), but to highlight that their career averages though three seasons are actually remarkably similar. It’s also to show that Evan is already a better defender and shooter than Garnett was at the same point in their careers.
Now, Garnett played in an era when scoring was not what it is today, and his numbers are hindered by a very average rookie year. But even his best year (year 3) he slashed 18.5/9.5/4, which is not that different from where Evan is at, and he did that while being depended on for his scoring far more than Evan ever has been. If the Cavs really commit to Mobley being the team’s number 2 option, would it really be shocking to see his scoring/assist numbers go up to around 19/10/4 during this upcoming campaign and seriously contend for an all star spot? Because that doesn’t seem like a stretch at all to me.
Hey man, if Evan can be 75% of the player Garnett was, I would be thrilled, and I would happily eat crow with ghost pepper sauce.
Don't let your mind think that I'm saying "Evan Mobley sucks." That is NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying he isn't a superstar and shouldn't be paid like one.
How can you say "shouldn't be paid like one" though? You've already admitted the contract is the contract and they had no choice. So what "should" have happened here in your mind?
Just wants something to bitch about.
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No. I just don't think he's done enough to get that kind of contract. I like Evan, and what he brings. But I don't see a pathway for him to being a franchise player, and he is paid like one. This franchise will go as he goes. We need him to make a quantum leap in his development. That's not an unreasonable statement.
The front office and ownership group demands him gain 15-20 pounds of muscle for starters. He is still very underweight.
And develop a mean streak in him and become a Dawg
Let's Go Bucks
Allen signs a max extension.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40690442/cavs-jarrett-allen-agrees-3...
People will probably bitch about this because the word “max” is in the headlines. But good roll players are going for 20-25 million this offseason. In two years, with the cap going up 10% a year, I can’t imagine a boarder line all star center isn’t worth at least $30 million a year. By the second year of that extension, it will look like a bargain for a player of his caliber.
Deep down, I’m also hoping this extension means Garland is the most likely “core” player to get traded. I know people will complain about Mobley’s fit with Allan, but if he can maintain his 37% shooting from 3 on higher volume, he can absolutely fit as the 4. I like Allan’s fit next to Mobley exponentially more than Garland’s fit next to Mitchell.
The Cavaliers are certainly making a financial commitment to keep the "Core 4" together. At the same time they must feel this is the best way to go to build a championship team. Cleveland will be good for sure in 2024-25, but there's plenty of competition in the East for that top spot, namely the Celtics, Knicks, Sixers, and Pacers. Can our Cavs take the next step up? Boston is the champion, while the Knicks and Sixers made impactful moves that could make the Celtics sweat a little extra for that East title, while Indiana went all the way to the East Final, and head to head, we've had trouble with the Pacers.
On multiple occasions, I said this team could’ve gone way farther with a competent head coach. I guess we get to test this theory.
Posting this here because apparently there wasn't much of an appetite for it on 11W, but how special was that Olympics team? Watching LeBron and Steph dominate together in those last two games got me emotional as a pure hoops fan. Almost a Disney-like ending. Bron, Steph, and KD each had their moments at the end of the Serbia game and finally being able to cheer for Curry as he hit a 30-foot fadeaway dagger was an unreal feeling. This was my generation of basketball and I definitely savored every moment of them playing one last time together.
Also, shoutout to Devin Booker for saying a year ago he would commit to playing his role and following up with it. Best +/-, incredible defending, important buckets, I hope he has a great upcoming season for Phoenix.
Congrats to the Avengers.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
It was awesome. Only other time I feel like I rooted for Curry was 2013-14 (the season before they made the finals) and when they beat Boston. It's honestly too bad the GSW couldn't pull off the Lebron trade last trade deadline. That was spectacular to watch and now I feel cheated.
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I got choked up when I watched it...it was unreal actually being able to root for Steph...especially since he really has always been a likeable guy...he just won too much over the Cavs for my liking lol.
Lebron/Steph/KD all maybe past their primes but they still are top 10 players imo.
When Magic and Larry were past their primes, I wouldn't say they were close to top 10 still...even when Michael was past his prime in Washington, he was not a Top 10 player. Neither was Shaq or Kobe.
I will say my favorite moment of the run they had though was when KD through that alley oop to Anthony Edwards...imagine Edwards getting an oop thrown to him by his childhood idol....that was so awesome.
Let's Go Bucks
In things you can’t make up… Cavs home opener will be against the JB Bickerstaff led Pistons.
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Feel bad for JB in that he goes from coaching a playoff caliber team to coaching a dumpster fire team again.
Let's Go Bucks
Luke Travers signed on a two way today. Does everything but shoot. Not sure if that occupies the last roster spot or not but won’t contribute until he gets NBA 3pt range and consistency. Think poor man’s Josh Giddey if you’ve missed the past couple of summer leagues.
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Okoro back for 3yr/38m. That’s a great deal for what was rumored prior. Glad to see him back.
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I really hate the Knicks.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41482366/sources-knicks-nearing-deal...
I hate them, a lot.
Im sure it helps the Knicks a little bit but I don’t think it’s a game changer. I just can’t believe they gave up Donte for KAT. KAT seems like the least likely Thibs player and Donte is part of the Nova boys. I thought since this summer they should have dumped Randle to resign Hartenstein.
The Twolves are loading up and I love what they’re doing. They can legit go 9 deep and that’s not including Dillingham. Conley, Ant, McDaniels, Randle and Reid is a hell of a closing lineup with the versatility to go smaller by adding Donte or bigger by taking off Randle and playing Gobert.
Love this trade for the Wolves, eh we’ll see for the Knicks.
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I agree with you. I don't see Minnesota missing KAT at all with them having Reid and Donte Divincenzo is another knockdown shooter. I can see this trade catapulting Minnesota into a top 3 team while the Knicks will be slightly worse. Only thing is Randle could be a shot chucker at times and it won't fly with an Edwards led team.
I already had them in the top 3 of Boston/OKC/Minn before this trade (in that order) and I think they’re neck and neck with everyone now.
The Minnesota GM helped build the Nuggets championship roster and he’s doing a hell of a job again the last couple years.
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Perfect player to get injured right before they play the Celtics in the playoffs
Wouldn't matter. Boston would beat the Knicks in 5 with or without KAT. He is a poor defender that disappears during the playoffs.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Well if KAT is healthy that means Brunson and OG are hurt. So my guess is 5 game too.
Knicks still have the wing defenders to hang with Boston and an All Pro PG. 5 games is laughable and such an arrogant statement to make.
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Undercoverbuck: Do you see any significant changes in the Cavs' rotation this season? Barring any long term injuries, I'm wondering if the bench will be a little more productive? Will Jaylon Tyson be part of the rotation?
With Kenny Atkinson now the coach, he may look at the roster in a different way.
I don’t see anything until well into the season, if they even try to make a move. Cavs have convinced themselves it was a JBB problem (not necessarily wrong in part) and not a roster problem. Now if the asking price comes down on someone like DFS or Cam Johnson they’ll probably see what they can do. Just hard to project they’re level of urgency in making a move when we don’t know how everyone will look. I would have low expectations for Tyson, especially in his first year or two. I think he can eventually crack the rotation maybe as early as next season but he’s not really an NBA ready player. I think the front office sees him as an eventual LeVert replacement so we’ll see how the development goes. One of Atkinson’s calling cards is development so we might be pleasantly surprised with his development.
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Watched the Cavs' preseason game vs. the Bulls, and I liked the uptempo pace that they were playing. Also, I couldn't help but notice how much weight Georges Niang has lost. He's not skinny, but a lot more lean. Should help him get on the court more.
I'm hoping that Coach Atkinson will keep the pedal to the metal because I believe this suits the "Core 4" better. I felt the pace of last year's Cavs was not conducive to maximizing their skills. Maybe Darius Garland won't turn the ball over as much with a faster pace of play, giving him more open court opportunities to find his teammates.
Things I've liked about this preseason that I've heard so far
I think we're looking at another top 4 finish. Boston, NYK, and then a toss up between Orlando and us for the 3rd/4th spots.
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I think Philly will go hard after the top record in the east. But they are so injury prone. Not sure I like the Knicks defense and their bench is weak.
Could see the Cavs anywhere from 3-6. It is going to be hard not to make the playoffs in the East. Bottom is really bad.
Not sure what to make of the Heat and Bucks...plus the Pacers. Boston to me is the only real known this season in the East.
Can Garland and Mitchell co exist? Like you said the you and then me offense bogs the Cavs down. Boston faced this with Tatum and Brown so many years and finally figured it out.
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
Cavs breaking ground on a new state of the art practice facility today, expected to open in 2027.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
Heard last night on the Cavs' preseason game vs. Detroit that Coach Atkinson wants Darius Garland to shoot more 3's. Probably a good idea because it seems like Darius hasn't shot the trifecta as well recently, perhaps because of low volume. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it seems like 2 years ago Garland shot the 3 ball better than he did last season. Darius averaged 6 threes per game in 2023-24, and I believe they want him to put up 10 at least.
It's not necessarily the number of three's really it's how he shoots them. He probably wants a small uptick in three's from Garland regardless but the key is more variety. He wants to get him more off catch and shoot and coming off screens giving the offense more motion. He doesn't want the majority being step back or dribble around until he has to shoot like he has a tendency to. Atkinson is stressing multiplicity and that includes Mitchell as well.
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